Mark,
This is a good news to me. We are need a solution to make all non-engineering teams view the design. I will try this free solution next month. It's better to make the free visECAD support the crossprobing between the schematics and the layout.
Yanfeng
Our engineers got excited... a few minutes after we discover we can not do crossprobing or even open the schematics and PCB at the same time.
Then what is the point?
We can open PDF schematics and use the EE free PCB wiever and get equivalent if not more functionality.
If you realy like to promote ccz format you should consider adding crossprobing capabilities to the free version and let collaboration and advanced features for the non free one.
IVisECAD isn't free, Only Mentor provide user to try it 12 months without payment before they decide to buy it, and it be desinged to make the crossprobing disable for the evaluation version of visECAD.
visECAD competes with PTC's Intercomm Expert ,which now is a dead product.
Yanfeng
I know is not free, but main point is competitors are offering free schematics/pcb viewers with full capabilities and everybody is acustomed to that (Altium et al) and when we provide our designs to third parties first question always is: where is the free schematics/viewer like xx company to visualize design?
Answer is always the same and unfortunately (we now what will be the result in advance) when you provide the free EE PCB viewer, outcome is always the same: This viewer is very complicated and not user friendly, how to crossprobe with schematic?... do you have onother way?
When I saw announcement I got excited to finally resolve this common issue, but unfortunately outcome is not OK until Mentor will realize the real need for a free easy to use (as visECAD) tool for third party companies* not willing to spend a dollar when other companies provide that for free
*We can justify visECAD licenses here but not at PCB, assembly houses and other external parties.
In manufacturing field, there are more to viewing layout and schematic, most of thier requirement are DFX verificaiton, BOM check, Testpoint assingment, Assembly Documentation and Pickup and AOI data. I don't think a free viewer for schematics and layout can satisfy them. And I don't think Assembly have strong need for the crossprobing between schematics and layout(Testing may need this capability).
I don't think EDA vendors are wiling to provide free viewing tool having all capability user wished without finicial incentives.
Yanfeng
Hi Paul
The visECAD viewer is free. Anyone who needs to view schematic and layout data can download and license it automatically over the web. It was made available on Mentor.com as opposed to SupportNet, to enable any users who need to view the data could do it even if they are not direct Mentor customers. It is easy to use and is not dependent on a specific version of the design tools which typically design specific viewers are dependent on. The CCZ design files can be created automatically from Expedition 2007.X and later, DxDesigner 2007.5 and later, PADS Layout V9.0 and later and from other design systems using the Mentor CAMCAD Professional product.
Our next version will allow an Expedition or PADS Layout user cross probe with the CCZ schematic file loaded in visECAD. This will be part of the free visECAD viewer.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
Recently, I visited one of my friends, who have CAMCAD . We did a test for translating ODB++ databases to CC files. One issue is raised, CAMCAD can't
correctly consolidation gemoetries(.Consolidate_Geometry Y), so visECAD will display mutlple gemoetries to one gemoetry. Below is a example, SMDCAP now have two geometries:SMDCAP and SMDCAP- 7 even this is a very simple design. This issue also make the comparison result be less meanful.
I have checked cc files, it seems it's a resolution issue for CAMCAD whiling it reads in ODB++ data from Allegro. The description to the geometry like this:
placeBottom="0" <Insert entityNum="1688" layer="-1" graphicClass="0" insertType="2" refName="2" geomNum="73" x="0.095" y="2e-016" angle="0"
I also use CAMCAD to translate ODB++ data from Expeditionpcb, there is no this type of issue althoug the ODB++ data from Expeditionpcb have other bug(metric-unit issue).
Would you notice this symptom and what action user can do to consolidate the geometry?
Yanfeng
Hi Yanfeng
Please let me know what version you of CAMCAD is being used. The latest is Update 3 for CAMCAD Assembly 1.0. This install is CAMCAD 4.8 of the application.
We just fixed an issue with the inital read of ODB++ that may resolve the issue you are talking about. That release is about a couple of months away. Please try the above released version and see if that addresses the issue. We found that there is a difference in the data that does not allow the consolidator to work and that was fixed. Having said that the Update 3 version has a Pins Only mode that allows more complete consolidation.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
Much thanks for speedy anwser. My friend has confirmed that it's CCASM v1 update3,the verison number is "4.8.038.030 ". I and he tried to use "P" switch, but result is that there are many gemotries generatered to one type of CAD gemotry. I attached a odb++ database from Allegro, would you like help me to verify this symtom? the password for unzip I will send seperately.
Yanfeng
sorry. I have to attache another odb++ data.
Hi Yanfeng
I took a look at the file and it does appear that our result in the new version is much better out of the box without resorting to the consolidation. I did notice that some of the packages still seem to be duplicated, the connectors were one example. We will look in to this further and see if there is a reason for this.
Thanks
Mark
Much thanks! I am looking forward to it.
Additionally, I introduced free visECAD to our collegues in assembly lines, they told me it's important to visulize 3D PBA, they asked is it possible to display 3D in visECAD? In my opinion, it's better that visECAD have a 3D visulization feature if hooking up with VPL packages.
Yanfeng
Hi Yanfeng
There is no 3D capability in visECAD. There is a 3D viewer that is available that works in conjunction with Expedition. There is also a 3D viewer that we have as part of the vPlan product suite on the Process Engineering product line.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
I understand there are other 3D visulizer to EDA data, for Vplan's DirectX viewer or Expeditionpcb's 3D viewer. I think visECAD user will welcom thjat visECAD have a built-in DirectX Viewer(a Microsoft technology.
My opinion is 2 cents.
Yanfeng
Mark,
I visited my friend again to confirm this symptom. He and me have verified ODB++ output 68 Allegro designs(43 using ODB++ inside 8.2, 25 using ODB++ inside 9.1). We found every have duplicated package geometries after reading to CAMCAD (4.8.038.30). We also translated 21 Allegro designs to Expedition PCB database and outputed the odb databases, there is no duplicatated geometries after reading to CAMCAD.
Yanfeng
I have touched my freind and let himto import Allegro extracted files(sym.tx,rte.txt,pad.txt,board.txt), he tole me that he tested 9 Allegro design and no one have duplicated gemotries after import those extacted files into CAMCAD. He also told me all will duplicated gemotries if he writes IODB++ from CAMCAD to these 9 design and import it back to CAMCAD.
Yanfeng
Hi Yanfeng
I took a closer at your files and our result in CAMCAD does look correct in the released version. There are differences on a component to component basis that justify the suffix being added to the package name.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
I drived to my freind's company to get the screenshot.
This is the screenshot for reading extracte files(sym,brd,pad,rte).
In Allegro database, There are 0603D and 0603D-2 gemotries and they have different SMD padstacks. CAMCAD read these extracted Allegro files well,no gemotry missed and no additional geometry generated. This is ok
Below is the screenshout for reading ODB++ data which outputed from Allegro using ODB++ inside. We saw many new gemotry names in CAMCAD and all not be in original Allegro database
Yanfeng
Hi Yanfeng
The viewer is free for 12 months after which time it can be renewed for another 12 months. After the initial 12 month period, just return to the web site and request a new license file for another 12 months.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Paul
Thanks for taking the time to review the free viewer. I'd like to respond to the points that you made.
The current version allows external cross probing from visECAD to Expedition or PADS Layout for layout data. The next version will allow a layout engineer to view schematic data from DxDesigner in visECAD and cross probe to both Expedition and PADS Layout. This type of capability is currently included with the free viewer and it is our plan to include the schematic cross probing I just mentioned with the free viewer too.
We are also looking to cross probe externally from both schematic and layout in visECAD to DxDesigner but I cannot confirm this capability yet. Again our plan would be to offer this in the free viewer too.
Once you have a license for the viewer you would be able to download a new version and install it to get the new version without a new license.
Thank you also for your suggestion of adding internal cross probing in visECAD to the free viewer, I will consider that in our future product planning.
Mark
Hi Mark,
After a week usage of visECAD, I have to say the tool is too far to use it in production environment.
Yanfeng
Hi Yanfeng
I would appreciate it if you could explain your posting on the type of functionality that you think is missing. We have received a lot of good feedback on visECAD and it is developing all the time based on internal and external feedback.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
Not functions missed, just the performance for the zooming and panning. When you try to load a real design, you will find tool slow even on a 2.0 GHz Xeon box with 2G memory..
Yanfeng
Hi Yanfeng
That PC confiugration should be fine for most designs provided you have not other applications running alongside it. You do not say which OS you are using but XP will take around 500MB of memory with Vista taking even more after booting up. This leaves 1.5GB of memory for the applications themselves. Now if you have Expedition running at the same time as visECAD on a large design that 1.5GB will get eaten up fairly quickly.
How big is the design CCZ file you are using in visECAD? How many components, nets, etc?
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
I have verified the performace on multiple boxes with different CPU/GPU/Memory configuration and tested hundreds of designs. I don't see current visECAD can bring any advantages to the corp compared to free PCB Browser. It's not pratical to update pcs used by non-engineering groups.
Even you use the deluxe box, VisECAD still be weak in the zooming/panning.
Yanfeng
Mark how can we enable a floating site based licenses for companies who want to provide the Free VisECAD viewer as part of a deliverable from their ISS department?
They do not want multiple people getting random licenseing or having to go to each machine and request access.
Thank you,
Rick Truza
Hi Rick
The free visECAD viewer is only available as a nodelocked license. For companies wishing to deploy it through a floating license server the base, the purchased visECAD product can be configured in this manner as it uses standard Mentor Flexlm. Once we get in to these types of requirements the company is typically interested in the paid product and its value added options.
In fact, visECAD can actually be installed on a server and users given access to the application over the network. In this manner it would be installed on just the server making future updates easy but it runs locally on the users machines when it starts so performance is not impacted. We have visECAD running in a number of companies in this manner.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
I see a lot of potenial in this viewer and we are actually looking at adding the Collaboration Suite to our license mix next year. I do have one question about an issue I am seeing. I have a design that has blind vias and we I look at the top view of the board, I see no pad for these vias. I can turn on the drill view for these, but i can't seem to be able to turn on the pad. The normal vias come through just fine. I haven't played with the tool much, so it is probably just something I have over looked in the settings.
Thanks,
Jeff
Hi Jeff
Thanks for your positive statements about visECAD, much appreciated.
Blind and buried vias will be displayed based on how they are described in the source CAD system. So if there is a pad on top you should see this in visECAD. Because drills on blind vias do not go through the board, visECAD knows whether a copper pad is being displayed or not for that via and descides whether to display the drill or not. It may also be that the PCB View is not configured for the via pads if they are defined on another layer. Just update the PCB View to add the necessary layer to the appropriate view.
Mark
I downloaded the "Free visECAD" recently and installed with the nodelocked license file emailed to me.
The machine I installed, there is another software from Mentor and there is already a MGLS_LICENSE_FILE
environemnt pointing to license server machine (in the intranet).
Now I realized that the "Free visECAD" grab the license (feature)
* wgview (vendor: mgcld)
* wgreport (vendor: mgcld)
My intention using this "Free visECAD" to see (browse) the schematics and PCB is, to avoid consuming
the any "Licenses". Actually, I don't know about licenses above but I don't want to grab
the license(s) in license server while "viewing" the designs (schematics and PCBs).
My question is; is the operation of "Free visECAD" above (grabbing some licensed from server) expected?
Is there ways to avoid grabbing any license from the license server?
Akira
Shimizu-san
The behavior you describe is consistent with the implementation that we did. visECAD has a free version, a visECAD paid base version and the two wgview/wgreport that can all be found to cause it to launch. However the free version does not support the check out of the options such as markup, reporting, DRC review and compare. The other base licenses do support the check out of options and therefore we look for these first.
One way to solve this is to use a Flexlm Options file on the server to tell the sever not to grant you access to any licenses you don't want to consume. This assumes you do not need access to those features at all. The options file is a standard Flexlm capability and can be configured to your needs.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
Thanks for your respose. Still I don't understand why "visECAD free version" need to check out the
wgview/wgreport licenses.
But I understand the visECAD has no way to control such behavior on the client side (not the license server side).
I tried to "plug off" the LAN connection, to inhibit the server access, and I see the visECAD free version can work
for me. What the "wgview/wgreport" license for (in case of free version of visECAD), and what effect we (free version of visECADs)
eat up all licenses on the server? Free version of visECAD no longer can run without "wgview/wgreport" licenses?
Access control by the license server is almost impossible to me. Typically we hav no priviledge to configure the server
for such purpose. And the license server may work as servers for other tools (such as FPGA developments).
The machine I installed need the "licenses" from the server for such tools but I want run "free version of visECAD"
without consuming the licenses.
For free version of visECAD, it is noted that the license type is "node lock" and we are installing the license strings
on the machine so the "free version of visECAD" should never access to "servers" in the environment variables
even LM_LICENSE_FILE or MGLS_LICENSE_FILE is defined.
If you have another way that can be done on the "client machine side", please let me know.
Thanks,
Akira
The visECAD free version, is actually visECAD. It is the same version that can be purchased so it needs to support all the licenses and capability that exists across all areas of the application. So what is really happening is that the visECAD application starts and then based on the licenses it can check out determine what capability is available to the user. This could be the free mode, the base purchased mode, or the base purchased mode plus any option licenses that are available. As I stated previously, the free check is a last resort if all of the other licenses are not available. This is because the free mode does not support the option licenses.
The free visECAD only needs the free nodelocked license to run. Once it is running in this mode, no options are checked out, no check out of wgview or wgreport are made and only schematic or layout CCZ files can be viewed but not both at the same time. From what you are saying you need access to the server to run other Mentor applications so this limits what we can do on the client side to not check out other licenses if available. If you didn't need access to other Mentor applications, just switch off the client access to the MGLS server and just point to the nodelocked license and you should be good.
Your comment about visECAD being nodelocked and shouldn't be finding the server is not really accurate. MGLS has the ability to look for multiple license locations and it is this part of the licensing that is doing the searching. visECAD is just asking for various license strings and MGLS is trying to obtain the check out on them any way it can.
I would recommend an enhancement request to SupportNet to allow the client to specify what mode you want visECAD to start up in.
Thanks
Mark
Hi all. I wonder if I can open ccz file with visECAD. The thing is that visECAD tells me:
"Old versions of .cc files is not supported"
Can you help me to troubleshot this issue?
Hi there
I suspect you are trying to load the old style CC file from over 10 years ago. The second generation CC file is an XML based file and can be read by both visECAD and CAMCAD. The old style CC file is not an XML based file and is very different from the ML based files. If you can send me the file I'll be happy to review and confirm. My email address is mark_laing@mentor.com.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
I have installed visECAD viewer in my PC and has put the license file attached in the sent mail from pcb_info@mentor.com as it is in C:\MentorGraphics\visECAD folder. Same is updated in Environment variables as suggested in the e-mail. But still when I open visECAD, it asks "Contact Mentor Graphics Corporation for visECAD License" and the viewer doesn't open. I have registered second time and received a new license file, but still same issue.
With regards
Lalit Kumar
Hi Lalit
My first suggestion would be to check the MAC ID in the license file against your machine. If you are using a desktop machine the Ethernet MAC address is preferred. If it is a laptop, then I would suggest using the Wireless card MAC ID. Open a command prompt and run ipconfig /all to see all the MAC addresses and check it against what is listed in the license file.
Next I would check to make sure they is only one MGLS_LICENSE_FILE location and that this points to the file you have. The feature in the license file should be vifree.
Thanks
Mark
I want to use the free visecad viewer together with pads layout.
How can i start the crossprobing between visecad viewer and pads layout?
Joachim
Hi Joachim
In the visECAD toolbar there is an Automation Connect button that you will find on the right hand side of the display. Use this to connect to PADS Layout.
Thanks
Mark
Hi Mark,
We hope VisECAD support Chinese Menu Text, support to create view for coloring net(currently only support to create view for coloring componnet), improve graphics performance, support to view ODB++ data or has a built-in translor for. Also, I have obersverd visECAD has a slow response for clicking menu icon.
Yanfeng
Did your invoke Pads and load the design?
Yanfeng
correct, pads layout needs to have been started. then load the design in pads and then use the automation connect.
Mark,
I have been sent a board file with a *.ccz file extension. After investigating on the web, I realized that I need a CAMCAD board reader for this file. So, I downloaded visECAD v2.5. I followed the instructions to the letter. However, when I invoke visECAD v2.5, I get the dialog box in the file visECADpop. It is a jpg and the file extension needs to be added. I have placed the license file in the path 'C:\WorkingData\tundra\visECAD_ESDM'. I have placed the file twice in this subdirectory. The first name is tom.txt and the second name for the same file is '08CA7B5B-E697-2F03-69EB63C222E1BCF3.txt', which is exactly is the name given in the email from Mentor Graphics. This is the license file given to me by Mentor Graphics.
The environmental variable MGLS_LICENSE_FILE already exists. We are a Cadence shop and so this variable points to a license server. However, I redirect this variable to point to the path 'C:\WorkingData\tundra\visECAD_ESDM\tom.txt'. But, when I invoke visECAD v2.5, the below pop up dialog occurs. The pop up dialog has only the text 'Contact Mentor Graphics Corporation for a visECAD License'. That is all it says. So, I redefined the variable MGLS_LICENSE_FILE to have the value 'C:\WorkingData\tundra\visECAD_ESDM\08CA7B5B-E697-2F03-69EB63C222E1BCF3.txt'. The same failure occurs.
Could you help me, please? I have a critical need to look at the product's layout for product development and, eventually, shipment.
Hi there
It sounds like you have installed visECAD correctly and you have set up the license file correctly too. If you open the license file it should have a feature called vifree, do you see that? While you have opened the file check that the MAC ID in the file matches your computer. Open a CMD window, and type in ipconfig /all and confirm that the same MAC ID is listed in there too.
Thanks
Mark
You discovered the problem. The MAC address in the license file is 'HOSTID=00c0a8f1798f' and the mac address of my active port is 00 24 7e 69 31 d0. You just made me aware of two problems. One is the MAC address in the file and of the active port are different, which is the problem. The second problem is that when I am in the lab, I use my wireless port and a different MAC address, of course, is associate with that interface.
My recourse is to download the viewer with the associated license file again. In other words, go through the process again, but, in this effort, I must make sure that I submit the wireless MAC address, instead of the wired MAC address.
You gave me a direction to go and I am very pleasantly surprised by your quick response. Thank you very much.
The viewer is working. I successfully opened up the *.ccz file and it
looks good. Thank you very much.
Regards,
Thomas D. Pahel, Jr.
BladeCenter Development
(919) 254 4410
mark_laing
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Thomas D Pahel/Raleigh/IBM@IBMUS
04/18/13 07:06 PM cc
Subject
Please respond to Re: Re: Free visECAD Viewer now available - Free visECAD
"Discussion.Reply Viewer now available
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Thanks for letting me know. Glad we could get it working.
Mark
