1 2 First Previous 19 Replies Latest reply on Jun 11, 2014 6:38 AM by Rlongton

    Properties from outer space

    volain

      In Dxdesigner/PADS 9.2  I've got a component with a whole bunch of "non-common properties" that I can't get rid of. These properties don't exist on the symbol when I look at it in Symbol Editor.   I tried editting the library symbol and then updating the schematic symbol, but that didn't work.  I tried saving the library symbol with a new name and loading the new symbol, but it STILL has all the non-common properties. I tried deleting the symbol from the local symbols, and that didn't work.  I CAN'T GET RID OF THEM!  WHERE ARE THEY COMING FROM? WHY WON'T THEY LEAVE ME ALONE?  How can these properties not exist on the symbol in the library, but get added when I place them on a schematic?

       

      Among the properties I'm seeing are SPICE_MODEL, SPICE_PAR1/2, VOLTAGE RATING (not to be confused with VOLTAGE, which IS a normal property). I can't even delete them on individual symbols in the schematic.

       

      Thanks,

      Barry

        • 1. Re: Properties from outer space
          robert_davies

          The properties you mention appear to be to do with HyperLynx Analog (HLA), do you have this installed? If they are being added based on HLA then the properties should appear in your property file. Check this and also DxDataBook for properties set for 'Annotate'. Does the schematic have an history? Was it imported from somewhere else or translated etc.

          • 2. Re: Properties from outer space
            volain

            I do not have (or ever had) HLA installed.  Yes, parts of this schematic were cut-and-pasted from other schematics.  How/where do I set properties for DxDataBook?

             

            Barry

            • 3. Re: Properties from outer space
              robert_davies

              Annotation of properties from DxDataBook are defined in the DxDataBook configuration - assuming you have a database attached to DxDataBook and not just the symbol libraries. If you don't know what you have configured then is your environment configured for you by somebody else? If so then ask them to check. If not, and you are responsible for the setup then you can assume that the properties are not coming from DxDataBook.

              You also mention you updated the symbol and the properties didn't get removed. Did they never get removed or did they get removed and then added again? If you can't figure it out open an SR with Customer Support.

              • 4. Re: Properties from outer space
                volain

                It's hard to say whether the properties never got removed or what.  It LOOKS like they never got removed; in other words it looks the same before and after.  But as I said, I can remove the symbol from the schematic and the local library, and when I add the virgin part from my library those parameters still get added.

                 

                I don't have a database attached to DxDatabook, just using symbol libraries.

                 

                I can't open a SR because I'm not on maintenance-that's why I'm using this forum.

                • 5. Re: Properties from outer space
                  robert_davies

                  When you say 'local library' do you mean the part is seen in the 'Local symbols' section of the 'Symbol View' tab in DxDataBook? If that is the case and you also have the same synbol in a 'library' elsewhere without the properties try using the 'Substitute Symbol' option from the context menu (see picture). This will replace the 'local' copy with the 'library' copy and hopefully get rid of the properties you don't need.

                  • 6. Re: Properties from outer space
                    Gary_Lameris

                    I'm guessing the symbols pasted into the design were not from the same naming convention for the symbol name and partition.  To match the symbols up, you will need to either substitute symbols as Rob noted, or replace each symbol.  I use Find, advanced, set to properties, <symbol name>=symbolname.1 to select all the symbols in a design and then replace the symbols with the correct symbol from the library. 

                    • 7. Re: Properties from outer space
                      volain

                      One of the parts in question is named CAP0603.  In my local library I only found a part named CAP0603_1.  Don't know where that came from, but I deleted it.  Then I tried symbol update from Library, but unwanted properties still remain.  The first screen shot below shows the library part (in Symbol Editor); the second shot shows the part in the schematic.

                      lib_part.png

                      sch_part.png

                      • 8. Re: Properties from outer space
                        Gary_Lameris

                        Have you tried replacing the symbol from the library? 

                         

                        Right Mouse Button on the selected symbol, replace symbol.

                        • 9. Re: Properties from outer space
                          volain

                          I erroneously said "update", but I meant "replace".  So, to answer your question, yes, I tried Replace Symbol

                          • 10. Re: Properties from outer space
                            volain

                            This is still an issue (new project).  Does anyone have a solution?

                            • 11. Re: Properties from outer space
                              robert_davies

                              Open the Property Definition Editor (Tools - Property Definition Editor) and look for the erroneous properties (you can sort the list using the headers). If they exist then see if the check box to the left is checked, this will force the property to be annotated to the component when placed from DxDataBook. Uncheck the box and try placing another instance of the symbol either into the same project or a new one.

                              However, if they are being annotated from this mechanism they would not be shown as 'non-common'. If the properties that are 'non-common' don't appear in the property definition file you can add them and then add them to your symbols by editing them in the symbol editor if you require them.

                              If you are sure you don't require these then you will have to delete them from the symbols in the design (which you say you cannot do). As to why they are appearing, it is difficult to say, do they appear after back annotation from PCB or just by placement in the schematic? Without knowing your environment it is almost impossible to debug this issue, though we've not heard of this happening before.

                               

                              To answer an earlier question, the name_1 symbols are created when you copy in a schematic that has symbols with the same name but different timestamps which is why you have a few in the 'local symbols' tree, substitution is the method used to replace these with your library version.

                              • 12. Re: Properties from outer space
                                volain

                                Hi Robert,

                                 

                                Well, the properties in question do NOT appear in the Property Definition Editor.  I did a global search of my Mentor path, and didn't get a hit on any of the properties in any file.  What I DID find was that if I created a new capacitor from  scratch, it didn't get those unwanted properties added when I placed the symbol. 

                                 

                                For lack of any other ideas, I opened one of the problematic symbols (the ".1" file) in a text editor, and lo, and behold, the bad parameters were there!  But the parameters don't show up in Symbol Editor.  I'm attaching my bad symbol, cap0805.1.

                                 

                                Here's what I'm seeing.  The symbol file has the following properties: PINOFF, PINSWAP, REFDES,DEVICE,VALUE P/D_NUM,DESCRIPTION,MANUFACTURER_#1,TOLERANCE,SPICE_MODEL,SPICE_PAR1,SPICE_PAR2,PKG_TYPE,VOLTAGE_RATING,VOLTAGE.  All fifteen of these properties show up on the schematic. 

                                 

                                In Symbol Editor only the following appear:PINSWAP, REFDES,DEVICE,VALUE,P/D_NUM,DESCRIPTION,TOLERANCE,PKG_TYPE,VOLTAGE.

                                 

                                So, apparently, the symbol editor does not read EVERYTHING from the symbol file.  Maybe that's because those properties are not enumerated in the properties file?

                                • 13. Re: Properties from outer space
                                  robert_davies

                                  There must be something odd with your configuration, the 5 errant properties show up in the symbol editor when I open your symbol.

                                  • 14. Re: Properties from outer space
                                    Gary_Lameris

                                    Can you send me your properties file also?  gary_lameris@mentor.com

                                     

                                    And exactly what version of the software are you using?

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