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how to purge local symbol definition

Question asked by Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013
Latest reply on Oct 15, 2013 by robert_davies

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I've got an issue that is driving me crazy! This started when I went to add a new PDB to the library, I found a symbol that was used on another part, that was pin for pin the same as the part I was wanting to add, but because it was a "converted" symbol (from our PCAD library, a few years back), it had a couple of strange pin naming issues that I wanted to clear up. I fixed the pins in Symbol Editor, and completely rebuilt the PDB where it was used (deleted the gate information, deleted the attached symbol), the rebiuilt then PDB. I then added my "new" PDB, for the new part mentioned at the beginning of this.

I guess I must have had the older PDB definition in my "test" DxDesigner project (the one I use to test out new parts when they are added to the lib), because when I went to test the "new" part, I got packager errors, here's the error:

Target PDB Name: Integration\LocalPartsDB.pdb

ERROR: Symbol "UNRELEASED:XMEGA256A3-MH" of Part "112549" specified
a pin named "GND-7". The same symbol was previously defined
on Part "86802" with this pin named "GND__BOTT_".
Symbols with the same name must have identical pin names.

I have deleted both "parts" using this symbol, from this project, packaged, forward annotated, with no problems. When I try to add the initial part back on, I get this error again, even though the PDB has been fixed in the library. I've even gone back in and completely rebuilt this PDB again, removing the gate and symbol info, and adding it back.

So, how can I get DxDesigner to "forget" the local, screwed up definition of this symbol? The packager option I am using is "delete local data....", but that doesn't help. Can I somehow edit, or delete the local "LocalPartsDB.pdb"?

This is driving me nuts!

Thanks,

Tom D.

Aeroflex

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robert_davies Oct 15, 2013 5:12 AM

Tom,

What do you mean when you say 'When I try to add the initial part back on, I get this error again...'? Are you adding the part 86802? If so, is the symbol that is associated with that part the 'old' symbol or the newly edited symbol? Are there any references to this symbol in the 'Local symbols' section under DxDataBook - CL View - Symbols tab? if so try either deleting it or do a Substitute Symbol from the mouse context menu. The other option is to delete the LocalPartsDB.pdb from the integration folder and run packager again.

You don't quite provide enough information to fully diagnose the issue.

Rob

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Thomas.DeSmit @ robert_davies on Oct 15, 2013 5:23 AM

Robert,

Yes, when I try to add 86802 back to the design, I'm getting the error again. When I place the symbol (from DxDatabook), the two pins I had touched do not have pin numbers, even though everything is defined in the PDB. Why is it so difficult to get DxDesigner to "forget" something that has been changed? I've tried the right-click context "replace symbol", and there are no parts listed when I do "List Local Symbols".

I do see the parts listed under "local symbols" in the CL view, but "delete" is grayed out, the same for "substitute symbol". Now that I've looked at that view, why are there so many "local" symbols? I see hudreds there, and I know they are not all in my "test" design.

I'm going to try to delete the local parts database to see if that will remedy the issue.

Tom D.

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Thomas.DeSmit @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 5:29 AM

I deleted the "LocalPartDB.pdb", and I still get the same results. When I look at the "local symbols", there are still hundreds there, even though I just deleted the local parts db, where is it getting these from?

Tom D.

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robert_davies @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 5:32 AM

Local symbols are created when you translate from third party tools to DxDesigner without reference to a Central Library, or one that doesn't contain the same symbols. It will even do so if the library contains the symbols but there is a difference in time stamps. This is where 'substitute symbols' is used, to replace the local symbol with the library version. You have to select a symbol in the local view before 'Substitute' is enabled. Then you can do the substitution. You say this is a test project which is probably why it contains all of these local symbols.

Unfortunately DxDesigner caches all of the symbols used so that designs are 'portable' but there is no way to purge the database currently - perhaps you'd like to promote Idea D2698.

Rob

BTW The LocalPartDB.pdb has no effect on the contents of the schematic, it is just a snapshot of the part mappings of the parts used in the schematic, so deleting it won't remove symbols but it might prevent some errors on updated parts.

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Thomas.DeSmit @ robert_davies on Oct 15, 2013 5:50 AM

No matter what I do/select, the "substitute symbol" and "delete local symbol" are always greyed out. I can somewhat understand the "portablity" aspect of cacheing these symbols, but I don't have any parts in this project that reference those symbols (I've deleted the parts from the project)! And I still can't get rid of them!

I will look at the "idea", but that doesn't help me now, any ideas?

Tom D.

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robert_davies @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 5:57 AM

What are you using this project for? If you've deleted everything then is it just a test vehicle? If so, forget it and start over. if it is for production then you will have to change the symbol for the offending part to a new name and re-associate the PDB - not difficult, just update the symbol pointer. Add the new part and it should package without error. it would probably have been wiser to make the required changes to the symbol for the existing part and get its mapping right beforew re-using the symbol for a different part (but hindsight is a great thing).

If you are really stuck talk to Customer Support and see if they can suggest something - working via a forum is not ideal

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Thomas.DeSmit @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 6:19 AM

Robert,

It may be not be "difficult" to do the rename, remap, etc., but why is it necessary? Why are the "Delete" and "substiture" functions greyed out? Why are there symbols listed in the local pdb that have never been part of the design? As far as I know, this test project was never converted from another tool. I created it when we started using Dx, as a test bed for new lib parts that I add. I guess I will need to do the rename, rebuild, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why it should be so hard to get a minor symbol change to take affect. Humans make mistakes, and having software that doesn't allow these to be remedied just aggravates the mistake! Sorry for getting so animated about this, but it's really starting to get to me, I've tried so many ways to get the old definition purged, and the software "mocks" my attempts.

Tom D.

Aeroflex

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robert_davies @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 6:36 AM

Have you closed and re-opened the project since deleting everything? Does it make any difference to the 'local' symbols? I can go in and delete any local symbol in any number of my projects.

BTW Symbols are not in the PDB they're in the iCDB and will only be in there if they've been use by the project or have been copied in from other projects as you cut and paste schematics. Without a full history of what has been done in the project it is very difficult to diagnose. If it is merely a vehicle for creating and testing new parts then create a new project attached to the library and go from there. Both the parts that share the same symbol will then work because there will be no history. If it is a design that you need to take through to layout then you need to contact Customer Support, it is not possible to diagnose at a distance.

Rob

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8 Replies

robert_davies Oct 15, 2013 5:12 AM
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Tom,
What do you mean when you say 'When I try to add the initial part back on, I get this error again...'? Are you adding the part 86802? If so, is the symbol that is associated with that part the 'old' symbol or the newly edited symbol? Are there any references to this symbol in the 'Local symbols' section under DxDataBook - CL View - Symbols tab? if so try either deleting it or do a Substitute Symbol from the mouse context menu. The other option is to delete the LocalPartsDB.pdb from the integration folder and run packager again.
You don't quite provide enough information to fully diagnose the issue.
Rob
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Thomas.DeSmit @ robert_davies on Oct 15, 2013 5:23 AM
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Robert,

Yes, when I try to add 86802 back to the design, I'm getting the error again. When I place the symbol (from DxDatabook), the two pins I had touched do not have pin numbers, even though everything is defined in the PDB. Why is it so difficult to get DxDesigner to "forget" something that has been changed? I've tried the right-click context "replace symbol", and there are no parts listed when I do "List Local Symbols".

I do see the parts listed under "local symbols" in the CL view, but "delete" is grayed out, the same for "substitute symbol". Now that I've looked at that view, why are there so many "local" symbols? I see hudreds there, and I know they are not all in my "test" design.

I'm going to try to delete the local parts database to see if that will remedy the issue.

Tom D.
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Thomas.DeSmit @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 5:29 AM
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I deleted the "LocalPartDB.pdb", and I still get the same results. When I look at the "local symbols", there are still hundreds there, even though I just deleted the local parts db, where is it getting these from?

Tom D.
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robert_davies @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 5:32 AM
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Local symbols are created when you translate from third party tools to DxDesigner without reference to a Central Library, or one that doesn't contain the same symbols. It will even do so if the library contains the symbols but there is a difference in time stamps. This is where 'substitute symbols' is used, to replace the local symbol with the library version. You have to select a symbol in the local view before 'Substitute' is enabled. Then you can do the substitution. You say this is a test project which is probably why it contains all of these local symbols.
Unfortunately DxDesigner caches all of the symbols used so that designs are 'portable' but there is no way to purge the database currently - perhaps you'd like to promote Idea D2698.
Rob
BTW The LocalPartDB.pdb has no effect on the contents of the schematic, it is just a snapshot of the part mappings of the parts used in the schematic, so deleting it won't remove symbols but it might prevent some errors on updated parts.
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Thomas.DeSmit @ robert_davies on Oct 15, 2013 5:50 AM
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No matter what I do/select, the "substitute symbol" and "delete local symbol" are always greyed out. I can somewhat understand the "portablity" aspect of cacheing these symbols, but I don't have any parts in this project that reference those symbols (I've deleted the parts from the project)! And I still can't get rid of them!

I will look at the "idea", but that doesn't help me now, any ideas?

Tom D.
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robert_davies @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 5:57 AM
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What are you using this project for? If you've deleted everything then is it just a test vehicle? If so, forget it and start over. if it is for production then you will have to change the symbol for the offending part to a new name and re-associate the PDB - not difficult, just update the symbol pointer. Add the new part and it should package without error. it would probably have been wiser to make the required changes to the symbol for the existing part and get its mapping right beforew re-using the symbol for a different part (but hindsight is a great thing).
If you are really stuck talk to Customer Support and see if they can suggest something - working via a forum is not ideal
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Thomas.DeSmit @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 6:19 AM
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Robert,

It may be not be "difficult" to do the rename, remap, etc., but why is it necessary? Why are the "Delete" and "substiture" functions greyed out? Why are there symbols listed in the local pdb that have never been part of the design? As far as I know, this test project was never converted from another tool. I created it when we started using Dx, as a test bed for new lib parts that I add. I guess I will need to do the rename, rebuild, but for the life of me, I can't figure out why it should be so hard to get a minor symbol change to take affect. Humans make mistakes, and having software that doesn't allow these to be remedied just aggravates the mistake! Sorry for getting so animated about this, but it's really starting to get to me, I've tried so many ways to get the old definition purged, and the software "mocks" my attempts.

Tom D.
Aeroflex
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robert_davies @ Thomas.DeSmit on Oct 15, 2013 6:36 AM
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Have you closed and re-opened the project since deleting everything? Does it make any difference to the 'local' symbols? I can go in and delete any local symbol in any number of my projects.
BTW Symbols are not in the PDB they're in the iCDB and will only be in there if they've been use by the project or have been copied in from other projects as you cut and paste schematics. Without a full history of what has been done in the project it is very difficult to diagnose. If it is merely a vehicle for creating and testing new parts then create a new project attached to the library and go from there. Both the parts that share the same symbol will then work because there will be no history. If it is a design that you need to take through to layout then you need to contact Customer Support, it is not possible to diagnose at a distance.
Rob
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