1 2 First Previous 18 Replies Latest reply on Jun 12, 2014 7:03 AM by Jack

    Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.

    dipakdesign

      Hello

       

      I have one question Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.

       

       

      Mentor Royally messed up Dx Designer with the messed up database file system instead of a single files system for schematic capture I am not talking about all it simulation stuff. Even cadence with it’s Allegro product did not touch it’s Orcad schematic product but Mentor in it infinite wisdom decided to revamp the Dx Designer product and Royally messed it up.

       

      In doing so they lost many customers big one and small I guess that is progress.

       

      So I would like to really know honestly how many people would rather use Orcad or Pads logic over Dx Designer.

       

       

       

      I hope the CEO of Mentor see this message since the few people in charge of Dx Designer at mentor really don’t care.

       

       

       

      It is ok to say we made a mistake and redo the tool to have a single Schematic file, don’t let your ego’s come in the way. You can keep calling it the best tool out there.

       

       

       

      The only reason they can say a lot of people use Dx Designer is because the bundle it with PADS ES suit now, I am quite sure most people that use PADS Layout ( Great Tool) don’t use Dx Designer.

       

       

       

      This is why Altium is taking business away from you and you don’t seem to notice but I think you don’t care.

        • 1. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
          yu.yanfeng

          Dxdesigner is much better than Orcad Capture and I recommend every Power logic user migrate to Dxdesigner from Power Logic, but Power Logic  be reserved.

           

           

          yanfeng

          • 2. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
            dipakdesign

            Hi Yanfeng

             

            It may be better but that simple fact that Mentor has gone and made it a data base instead of a single file makes it very difficult to maintain, how many software tools do you see out there that use a data base type structure where you can't even do a save or save as or keep a backup copy.

            Schematic are simple things.

            That is why OrCAD out sell DxDesigner and now Altium is also gaining market share simple because of DxDesigner and not the layout tool PADS.

            Until Mentor fixes the Files system I will not used Dx Designer, I have and will always use PADS layout as long as Mentor does not mess with it.

            You can not just say it is better show me how I can go through the flow and make it work better, I not interested at this moment with marketing telling how good it is all I see on you tube and Mentor web sites is oh I can draw better I can align thing that is not what i am looking for

             

             

            Regards

            Dipak

             

            -


            "yu.yanfeng" <community_admin@mentor.com> wrote:

            yu.yanfeng http://communities.mentor.com/people/yu.yanfeng replied to the discussion

             

            "Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system."

             

            To view the discussion, visit: http://communities.mentor.com/message/50763#50763

             

            • 3. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
              jduquette

              As a user of both PADS Logic (mostly) and DxD (occasionally) I'll add my thoughts.  I noticed an interesting trend in the Communities the other day.  The Logic forums have questions about fairly complex tasks, so my conclusion is that Logic has a fairly easy learning curve and most people can get right into the details of a design fairly quickly (unless they are used to working with DxD, then they find Logic confusing...).  The DxD forum gets a lot of questions about what should be simple things, like dealing with attributes and library issues, that really show it has a steeper learning curve.  From my experience DxD is a tool with a lot of capability, as long as you have 1-2 personnel in the CAD department dedicated to supporting it.  Logic is a good fit for small companies, DxD may be a good fit for larger companies.  There is a lot of good customer data that Mentor can mine out of their forums.

               

              That's this customers $0.02 worth.

              • 4. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                Jack

                I am probably misunderstanding your intent, but why is the "number of files" a critical factor?

                (btw, I'm sure there has to be a way to back up your database. no company would run on one single vulnerable copy of anything, forever)


                Not too many people would argue that a database structure is a limitation. Does it just take longer to set up properly?

                Even my simple website has an underlying database structure (http://drupal.org)


                But once you have it, and see the power of parametric searching for component selection, I don't think you would ever want to go back to a "list" format.

                Are you using DxDatabook as well?

                • 5. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                  Vern_Wnek

                  Dipak,

                   

                   

                   

                  First a brief history lesson.

                   

                   

                   

                  xDxDesigner which originated many years ago as Viewlogic and then became Innoveda, has never been a single file schematic database – so this has not changed. In fact over the last several releases of the software the database and file structure has been compressed significantly to increase the performance of the tool.

                   

                   

                   

                  We have no data that backs up that the data model of the application on disk is a major part of the decision making process when choosing a schematic capture package.  The decision on what schematic capture solution to use is typically based around ease of use, tool integration, reliability and data integrity.

                   

                   

                   

                  If you would like to learn more about xDxDesigner and Mentor’s other industry leading EDA tools, please feel free to visit: http://www.mentor.com/pcb/xpedition/design-create/?cmpid=9242


                   

                   

                   

                  Thanks,

                   

                  Vern Wnek, C.I.D.

                   

                  Technical Marketing, Xpedition

                  • 6. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                    Jack

                    Vern_Wnek wrote:

                     

                    First a brief history lesson.

                     

                    xDxDesigner which originated many years ago as Viewlogic and then became Innoveda, has never been a single file schematic database – so this has not changed. In fact over the last several releases of the software the database and file structure has been compressed significantly to increase the performance of the tool.

                     

                    We have no data that backs up that the data model of the application on disk is a major part of the decision making process when choosing a schematic capture package.  The decision on what schematic capture solution to use is typically based around ease of use, tool integration, reliability and data integrity.

                     

                     

                    Well, that was certainly a BRIEF history lesson! (smile)

                    That's okay, but I can't understand what your second point means.

                    "We have no data that backs up that the data model of the application on disk"?


                    Can you make a backup of the database, or not?

                    (we are new to DxD, so I'm just trying to learn...)


                    thanks,

                    Jack (aka "the new guy")

                    • 7. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                      Vern_Wnek

                      Jack,

                       

                      I think you have taken the sentence out of context...

                       

                      When I say "We have no data to back up that data model...", I mean Mentor Graphics internal engineering.

                       

                      And of course you can back up your data within xDxDesigner. Use Tools > Archiver

                       

                      And welcome to the xDxDesigner Users Club! Happy to have you here.

                       

                      Thanks

                      Vern

                      • 8. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                        dipakdesign

                        Hi

                         

                        You cannot use the web site as an example of data base file talk about programs, example world, excel, allegro PCB, OrCAD schematic ect….

                        Ok so I have a simple flow format that I have to follow I have to be able to just send one file to my customers to review the schematic, since they don’t use the tool often. That they can archive one file. Also I have had issues where I have had to create 2 or 3 temporary schematic quickly to show a few different way of implementing a circuit, in these cases I would simply go to windows explorer copy the schematic file rename it then make modes and then can send those file to customer for review, in dx designer I would have to keep creating different projects.

                        Then when it comes to doing a rev to the schematic a few months later (or when requested) I can simply for to document control check out old rev then rename to new rev and make the mods. This is the simple work flow of 100% of my customers and I believe most of companies that do PCB design.

                        I can see where DX Designer may fit and it is in very large companies like may be the CISCO’s of this world and may be a few chip companies in their production test groups.

                        The companies I deal with are doing test boards, EV Kits, Demo board and some are making actual products. I know for a fact that even companies like TI have moved away from DxDesigner and Mentor simply because Mentor basically tried to shoved the new DxDesigner to them around 2006 or 2006 I think it was version 2007.2 when mentor changed the files structure to database.

                        So you have lost business because of that that is a fact.

                         

                        I can understand is you want to keep DxDesigner for the enterprise class but for the PADS Layout class of user you are better off with Pads logic with some improvements or better yet use OrCAD CIS which gives you the parts database function.

                        That is my simple request to mentor as a long and loyal customer of PADS PCB and PADS logic. I requested this way back when mentor introduced the data base file for DxDesigner. At that time I was working for a company that was using DxDesigner (asci file system version) and PADS PCB layout but once Mentor changed to data base file system I dropped DxDesigner and transitioned the company to OrCAD schematic worldwide.

                         

                        Hey Jack if you have a choice drop Dx Designer

                         

                        Regards

                        Dipak

                         

                        -


                        Vern_Wnek <community_admin@mentor.com> wrote:

                        Vern_Wnek http://communities.mentor.com/people/Vern_Wnek replied to the discussion

                         

                        "Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system."

                         

                        To view the discussion, visit: http://communities.mentor.com/message/50795#50795

                         

                        • 9. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                          Jack

                          Thanks for taking the time to respond.

                          I apologize for jumping in, I thought you might be experiencing the "growing pains" of trying to make the transition from one tool to another (like me)


                          You are already very far beyond my experience with this software.


                          best wishes,

                          Jack

                          • 10. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                            Vern_Wnek

                            Dipak,

                             

                            I will strive to be helpful, if I can...

                             

                            You wrote:

                            Ok so I have a simple flow format that I have to follow I have to be  able to just send one file to my customers to review the schematic,  since they don’t use the tool often. That they can archive one file.  Also I have had issues where I have had to create 2 or 3 temporary  schematic quickly to show a few different way of implementing a circuit,  in these cases I would simply go to windows explorer copy the schematic  file rename it then make modes and then can send those file to customer  for review, in dx designer I would have to keep creating different  projects.

                            Then when it comes to doing a rev to the schematic a few  months later (or when requested) I can simply for to document control  check out old rev then rename to new rev and make the mods. This is the  simple work flow of 100% of my customers and I believe most of companies  that do PCB design.

                             

                            Answer:

                            xDXDesigner gives you multiple ways to accomplish this:

                            1. Copy/Rename the Project Directory

                             

                            2. Use Job Wizard to Copy/Rename a Project

                             

                            3. If you need to keep iterations, you can use Tool> Archive. Each Archive is Named and Timecoded. It is basically a Zip format of the entire project directory. It is small and easily shipped to customers for review. Archives are easily restored for future revision when needed.

                             

                            4. If your customers are unfamiliar with xDXDesigner, then you can export the Schematic and/or Board data using Export CCZ. Again, a very small file. Your customer can then download (for Free) the Mentor Graphics VisEcad free viewer to review the databases. It is very simple to use. This is a very popular method used by many service bureaus and companies today because the CCZ file is encrypted and protects design IP.

                             

                             

                            You wrote:

                            I can see where DX Designer may fit and it is in very large companies  like may be the CISCO’s of this world and may be a few chip companies  in their production test groups.

                            The companies I deal with are  doing test boards, EV Kits, Demo board and some are making actual  products. I know for a fact that even companies like TI have moved away  from DxDesigner and Mentor simply because Mentor basically tried to  shoved the new DxDesigner to them around 2006 or 2006 I think it was  version 2007.2 when mentor changed the files structure to database.

                            So you have lost business because of that that is a fact.

                             

                             

                            Answer:

                            1. The change from ASCII databases to a Binary database is not uncommon with tool vendors, and typically is done with reasons within the working data structure of the toolset. Orcad is a Binary tool also.

                            2. Customers change tools for many reasons that I am not priveledged to know.

                             

                             

                            You Wrote:

                            I can understand is you want to keep DxDesigner for the enterprise class  but for the PADS Layout class of user you are better off with Pads  logic with some improvements or better yet use OrCAD CIS which gives you  the parts database function.

                             

                            Answer:

                            1. xDXDesigner is used by companies big and small and is the flagship front-end tool for the PADS and Xpedition flows. And quite a few other tools too.

                            2. xDXDesigner includes DxDatabook which provides a full Parts database capability with full parametric search capability unequaled by Orcad CIS (I have used both). But thats just one of xDXDesigners stronger capabilities.

                             

                             

                            xDXDesigner is better than ever, and as a front end for PADS or Xpedition, it's feature set is far above other tools in the industry. I have previously given you a link to view some of those features should you choose to do so.

                             

                            I hope this can be of help.

                            Vern

                            • 11. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                              dipakdesign

                              Hi

                               

                               

                               

                              No it does not, these are more of the same responses I got initially when you changed to data base files structure, I understand that tool have binary files but at least I have one single file in Dx Designer there is no such thing.

                               

                               

                               

                              So many steps to create a second schematic with different name

                               

                               

                               

                              I know companies can change tools for many reasons but Dx Designer has made that decision easier for them, I have heard from many of the engineers that the reason they switch was the difficulty with Dx Designer and the arrogance of Mentor.

                               

                               

                               

                              Does the Dx Databook shipping with PADS ES suit allow me to use a MySQL database?

                               

                               

                               

                              I am using Orcad CIS and have implemented a parts data base and it was easy to create and setup, I have a MySQL server database.

                               

                               

                               

                              Regards

                               

                              Dipak

                              • 12. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                                dipakdesign

                                So where is the

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                1.     Copy/Rename the Project Directory

                                 

                                2.     Use Job Wizard to Copy/Rename a Project

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                 

                                Can’t find it both

                                • 13. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                                  dipakdesign

                                  Vern

                                   

                                  Ok

                                   

                                  Finally I think I can make it work, I have found a way I can create copies and rename the project and still have my schematic attached to it.

                                   

                                  One thing I need to know is will the Dx DataBook that is shipping withh PADS ES Suit allow me to use a MySQL data base or do  I have to purchase yet another option.

                                   

                                  E-mail me separately so I can give you my number to call I need to talk to you. dipakdesign@gmail.com

                                   

                                  Still not very happy but I will manage.

                                  • 14. Re: Why does Mentor not listen to its customers regarding it DX Designer database files system.
                                    yu.yanfeng

                                    Yes,  MySQL database is supported and no option needed.

                                    yanfeng

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