14 Replies Latest reply on Nov 5, 2015 2:05 PM by MENTOR_BillT

    Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again

    mramalfi

      Hello,

      I am stuck on the ridiculous problem of trying to move my mounting holes, Layout part type MTHOLE1. After I get the part from the Layout library and place it on my PCB it is locked down solid. It is NOT listed as glued, and absolutely nothing I've tried works - it just will not budge. I had this problem years ago and carefully documented the solution - problem is, that was....years ago and who knows where in my documentation notebook(s), those notes exist. It's nothing magical, i.e., don't need to change 'ECO' or anything, ....it's a simple switch to throw somewhere. Help, please. Design is finished apart from this. Question is, why isn't this - moving mounting holes - fixed by now ? Why is it so torturous ? I can't even find any documentation on the problem anywhere.

       

      Thanks,

       

      Jim

        • 1. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
          Vern_Wnek

          Check you Net Filter and make sure Net0 is not excluded, or any net that the MTG holes may be connected to.

           

          Thanks,

          Vern

          • 2. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
            mramalfi

            Hi Vern,

             

            Where do I find the 'Net Filter', and 'Net0' ?

            By the way, I'm using the PADS 9.3 Suite.

             

            Thanks,

             

            Jim

             

            P.S. Heading to dinner - probably off-line for awhile.

            • 3. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
              Vern_Wnek

              Sorry Jim, I was thinking you were in Xpedition. Let me see if I can get you an answer for Pads.

               

              Vern

              • 4. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                yan_killy

                In PADS select Component > RMB (right mouse button) > Properties and unchecked Glued.

                 

                Yan

                • 5. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                  yan_killy

                  Make sure in Filter > Layer Tab > all is selected for editing.

                   

                  Yan

                  • 6. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                    mramalfi

                    Guys,

                     

                    Vern - no problem; I appreciate whatever you can dig up.

                     

                    Yan - Had tried all of that before. That's the weird thing, the part is not 'glued'. All I can recall from the last time this happened is that solution was simple - but not obvious - and I wasted a lot of time finding it. It was so painful that I made a bunch of notes, which now, I can't find.

                     

                    I can use any further assistance anyone can lend.

                     

                    When I first take the part out of the library I can move it anywhere I'd like, but, once it is placed that's it, it won't budge.

                     

                    Thanks,

                     

                    J.

                    • 7. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                      mramalfi

                      OK. All better, and the solution was as 'strange' as I remembered it being the first time. Again, I am in PADS 9.3.

                      All the comments egged me to press harder. So, under the 'Selection Filter', it turns out checking either 'Pin Pairs', or, 'Nets' (Vern, not sure if this gets me to the 'Net0' to which you referred) will 'unfreeze' the mounting hole 'MTHOLE1' (but I tried a few others, all with the same result). BTW, just checking 'Anything' won't get us there.

                       

                      Mentor must be some logic to this one - beats me if I know what it is. Seems like it be easier to re-locate a mounting hole if it moved, than a part.

                      Plus, as another earlier post from somebody else pointed out that if you are working 'linked' between 'Logic' and 'Layout' there's no (convenient) way to do an ECO with the mounting holes out of Layout back to Logic and the mounting holes disappear anyway the next time you start up - at least if you bring the netlist across.

                       

                      Anyway, thanks to everyone who considered the problem.

                       

                      Yan, thanks. For this one, I'm going to credit Vern. Maybe our paths will cross in the future.

                       

                      Jim

                      • 8. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                        yan_killy

                        Jim

                         

                        For MTG holes Part Type make it none-ECO registered and if you will use it with updated schematic changes ECO process will not touch them

                         

                        Yan

                        • 9. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                          MENTOR_BillT

                          Jim,

                          When your selection filter is set to Select Anything and you click on a single-pin component the selection is considered to be for just the pin, not the component. A pin is not allowed to be moved, only a component. If you make this selection, you can right mouse click, choose Select Component afterwards so that it considers the selection as the whole component and then a Ctrl+E will work to move the component.  Another alternative it to use the Select Component choice from the initial pop-up menu instead of the Select Anything. You mentioned checking the box for Pin Pairs or Nets previously, when you do this the selection filter automatically disables the check box for Pins so that the selection of any single-pin component forces it to be selected as the component instead of the pin just as the Select Component choice will do.

                          • 10. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                            wolferm

                            On a side note to MTG Holes, if the MTG Hole needs to be plated & does need to connect to a net like Chassis GND etc, if the part is NOT

                            ECO controlled the connection will not get from schematic/netlist to layout. I found this out after I made all holes NON-ECO so I would have to deal with them being removed, then I noticed none of the holes that should have been connected to GND were.

                            • 11. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                              yan_killy

                              I always add mounting holes in schematic and connect them if they are part of the net. That way I never incounter problems with ECO process. I only make non-ECO part if the they are in layout and not in schematic

                              • 12. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                                wolferm

                                Yes, I should have been more clear, we always make sure to add any item that has a net associated with it in the schematic, and even

                                some parts that don't get connected. I found out after the fact long after I made all holes non-eco, and a design came thru again with plated holes

                                to GND, it took a little bit to figure out what happened. Because nobody in their suggestions back then mentioned the fact about no connectivity either.

                                But it does really kind of makes sense.

                                • 13. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                                  mramalfi

                                  First, let me thank *EVERYONE* who weighed in on my problem, and potential solutions. While I did finally discover a 'fix', it could have been far worse and I'm glad I have people in my corner.

                                   

                                  Rhetorically speaking, it's unbelievably frustrating to have finished all the sweat and work of the schematic and PCB 'only' to be stalled solid by a mounting hole - I was seeing red.

                                   

                                  MENTOR_BillT, I hear you, and those were all interesting comments/suggestions. I guess part of what doesn't make sense is that as you mention, when you try to move a component and you grab it by one terminal, similar to the mounting hole, the component won't budge. The thing in that case though is that one terminal will highlight and the other terminal will not, thus signaling a 'try again'. No such indicator with the mounting hole - it just won't budge. I guess the additional issue that got me tweaked up was I searched all over the web and as much of Mentor's documentation as I could - trying to do due diligence - and I couldn't find a peep of a clue as to what the problem could be. To me this falls under 'Special Case' and should be documented somewhere, and if it already is, then somewhere easier to find.

                                   

                                  At any rate, my (current) problem is solved. Many thanks, again, to everyone.

                                   

                                  Jim

                                  • 14. Re: Stuck on a ridiculous 'MTHOLE1' problem....again
                                    MENTOR_BillT

                                    Jim,

                                    Agreed, and I will have a technote published in the next few days to cover this situation.

                                     

                                    Bill