8 Replies Latest reply on Nov 4, 2016 8:10 AM by Jack

    What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout

    kirbstone

      Hi everyone,

      I hope someone can give me some guidance on this.

      What is the best way to show how a symbol I put on my schematic will be excluded from the bom. Than how does someone pass that same information onto the Layout so the people designing the board know that the part is not going to be populated. If I understand some of this correctly by adding Parts list Exclude as an attribute to my symbol in the schematic it will not populate the bom. What is the next step in the process so when I package my design and pass it to the Layout person they will know which parts I will not be populating before or during the process of creating the PCB. I know they still need to put the part down on the board but is there a way to visually show that the part will not be populated?

      Thanks for your help.

      Regards

      Kirby

        • 1. Re: What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout
          robert_davies

          Take a look at Variant Manager (cost option) as this tool manages exactly what you require. Without variant manager you can use a much more manual process. Add a user property to your parts such as Do Not Fit and use the Part Lister in DxDesigner to sort on this so that the parts list from DxDesigner shows those parts that aren't populated separately to other parts - but this process requires the layout engineer to read the parts list from DxDesigner - and the Parts List from Expedition won't be able to use this property in the same way. You will also need to set up the Parts Lister contol file appropriately to sort in the way reuired.

          You cannot use the Parts List Exclude option in this case as you need to pass the information to layout via the DxDesigner BOM.

          • 2. Re: What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout
            kirbstone

            Hi Robert,

            Thanks for your help. Being a newbie to the layout side I was thinking that if I added an attribute like do not populate (DNP) to the symbol or a user property of DNP and activated it in the symbol properties window, within the code on the layout side it would look for DNP and know to place an (X) over that footprint yet still carry over the symbol information and refdes as well as remove it from the bom. This seems like such an easy option to build within the tool and with out the added cost of Variant Manager.

            Thanks for your help.

            Regards

            Kirby

            • 3. Re: What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout
              Jack

              I am a new user doing the online training right now, I haven't designed a board yet.

              I WILL need to know how to add a test connector to a board that will be used in the lab,

              but we DO NOT want that connector to appear in the BOM or counted in the cost of the assembly.

              I HOPE you are not saying we have to buy Variant Manager to keep a Test Component or a Jumper off the BOM!

              is it true?

              We have to buy Variant Manager to keep a zero ohm jumper off a BOM?

              • 4. Re: What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout
                robert_davies

                From the front-end you would use Part List Exclude and it won't go into the Part List generated by DxDesigner - if it is a jumper it is handled by the PCB tools, what the submitter is asking is for a board with unpopulated parts - which to us is a variant.

                • 5. Re: What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout
                  Jack

                  Maybe we are thinking the same thing, but just to summarize:

                  using the example of a zero ohm resistor, the submitter needs these three conditions:

                  • the resistor symbol should appear on the schematic as 0ohms
                  • the resistor footprint should be on the PCB layout
                  • the assembly supplier must know NOT to place that resistor

                  In my experience, NO ONE sends anything generated from the Schematic to the Manufacturer,

                  (so a Part List Exclude from DxDesigner seems useless to me).

                  It sounds like you are saying that there's no way to generate the fabrication data to ignore that one resistor without Variant manager.

                   

                  Its okay, I'm just surprised.

                  (We have to ignore components on most of our designs in Mentor Boardstation)

                  • 6. Re: What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout
                    robert_davies

                    No, I'm not saying that, I'm not an expert on the PCB tools, somebody who is will be able to answer your particular use case. I was answering the original question which is not the same as what you are asking.

                    • 7. Re: What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout
                      kirbstone

                      Hi jack,

                      What I've learned is if I add the attribute "Parts list Exclude' to my symbols in the schematic it excludes that part from the bom yet passes the data to layout because they still have to place that footprint on the board. That makes sense to me. It turns out Variant Mgr actually marks the footprint on the board as "not populated" some how. I don't know that much about how Variant Mgr works because I'm new to the layout part. I'm not trying to send anything from the schematic to the Manufacturer. I'm just wondering why the data from the schematic can not tag the cell in layout saying for this part do not populate yet carry data over like refdes. Why are we forced to buy Variant Mgr.

                      Robert just explained to me a way around using Variant Mgr but it involves more work on the schematic side and the person doing the layout. As a newbie I have to ask to learn how this tool works.

                      1 of 1 people found this helpful
                      • 8. Re: What is the best way to exclude a symbol in Expedition7.9.5 and pass that to Layout
                        Jack

                        robert_davies wrote:

                         

                        I was answering the original question which is not the same as what you are asking.

                        ok, maybe I haven't learned enough yet.

                        I just re-read his question a few times and I don't understand the difference

                        (except that he also asked to VISUALLY see the DNP components)

                        I rephrased the question using his quotes:

                        • "symbol I put on my schematic"
                        • "need to put the part down on the board"
                        • "part is not going to be populated"

                        His one confusion I believe, is that he wants to show the Layout people which parts aren't populated.

                        In truth, as a layout person, I don't care. If it has to be in the layout, it is a footprint just like any other.

                        but the assembler DOES need to know

                         

                        ok, I will go back to my Mentor On-Line Training courses now....