1 2 First Previous 19 Replies Latest reply on Sep 21, 2018 7:50 AM by mwoi

    Missing pin numbers when placing symbols

    mwoi

      Hi all,

       

      Noob question: When I place symbols from the Part View tab in the PADS Databook the symbols have no pin numbers displayed, whereas symbols placed from the Symbol View tab have pin numbers displayed. Why is this?

       

      Thanks in advance.

        • 1. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
          robert_davies

          This is because by default Parts in the Parts view tab have no slot assigned, whereas, from your description, the symbols have pin numbers assigned to the symbols in the library. This being the case you are better off using the symbol view to place parts. To assign a specific slot using the Parts tab you need to select one from the 'Slots' column by expanding the + sign . This method is used where symbols don't have pin numbers defined so that you can share a common symbol across different parts with different pin-outs.

          Just one question though, why are you not using the 'Search' tab of Databook which is looking at the parametric data of your library? Do you have a separate parametric database or do you just use the Central Library?

          • 2. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
            mwoi

            Thanks for your reply.

             

            Honestly, the entire PADS Databook has me totally confused. What is the difference between the Search tab of the Databook and the CL View tab? Should I be using one or the other?

             

            Since the installed PADS software had no provided libraries, I downloaded and installed the ODA Starter Library and set up PartQuest. It's very likely that I either screwed up the install/setup of one or both.

             

            This is nothing like the PADS I used back in the 90's... All these features/enhancements have made it a convoluted and frustrating mess, IMO.

             

            Sorry for venting.

            • 3. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
              robert_davies

              Which version are you running as there was a Starter Library shipped with VX.1.2?  The intent was to allow you to start work directly after you installed the software and created your first project, it doesn't contain a comprehensive set of parts but it can get you started and familiar with the flow. It is supplementary to the ODA library. If you are using the ODA library then it comes hooked up to a parametric database so use the 'Search' tab instead of the CL View.

              The Search tab references a relational database (usually MS Access or SQLite) to hold the parametric data that allows you to search on more properties than you are likely to need on your symbols or directly stored inside the central library. Items such as cost or status for your parts can be stored in the parametric database and the symbol name and Part Number (or Device depending on project type) properties map between the parametric database and the logical/physical parts in the central library.

              The CL view tab is looking at the content of the central library and this generally holds less information than the parametric database, but does have some necessary duplication of data such as Part Number (which is the unique identifier of the part in this flow).

              When you add a part to the schematic you can decide how many properties from the parametric database are added to the symbols, keeping them to the minimum to meet your requirements.

              The reasons why there are two seemingly duplicated processes is down to the history of the products and the acquisitions made over the years where we support PADS, PADS Professional and Xpedition flows.

              Look up the section on Databook in the on-line help if you need further explanation of how it all hangs together.

              • 4. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                mwoi

                I'm running VX 2.3. The only library (that I could find) was the one that was part of the PADS Standard Plus Evaluation.

                 

                Okay, so I should be using the Search tab over the CL view. Now, did I botch things up by installing/setting up PartQuest?

                 

                I downloaded several parts using PartQuest, but I don't see them when I use the Search tab, but I do see them in the Central Library. Why?

                 

                Similarly, I created several parts and I can see them in the Central Library, but not when I use the Search tab... I'm obviously doing something wrong.

                • 5. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                  robert_davies

                  You are not doing something wrong, if you download from PQ the parts (symbol and cell (decal) go into the central library only, hence you can see them in th CL View tab, you need to add the extra information into the associated database for it to be seen in the search tab. Unfortunately I can't help you with this, a call to customer support would be the right course of action for this.

                  As to parts you created yourself. same thing, if you created them in PADS Library Tools then you created them directly in the library, you can add the additional parametric data by using the context menu from the PADS Library Tools Navigator - select the part you created in the Part partition and RMB - Edit parametric data. This will open up the database table allowing you to fill in the missing pieces.

                  If you simply created a 'local' symbol, hierarchical block for instance then it is stored in the design database and can also only be found on the CL view - Symbols tab.

                  • 6. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                    mwoi

                    When I select and RMB any of the parts in the Parts partition (including the ones I created), I don't get an "Edit Parametric Data" choice in the context menu.

                     

                    Also, when I RMB the "PADS_Integrated_Library.lmc" Central Library and select "Edit Databook Configuration," I get the message "There is no Databook Configuration associated with this Central Library."

                     

                    Is that correct?

                    • 7. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                      robert_davies

                      It explains why you don't see the information in the Search tab. It is neither correct nor incorrect, you can work with or without a parametric database, the choice is down to you. If just working with the central library and the information it provides is adequate then carry on doing so.

                      • 8. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                        mwoi

                        Would this lack of parametric data be the reason why I get a "Cannot Find Library" status message when I run the Live Verification? And does this message prevent me from Forward Annotating and proceeding to Layout?

                        • 9. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                          robert_davies

                          It prevents Live and Hierarchical verification. It does not prevent you packaging and forwarding to layout.

                          • 10. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                            mwoi

                            Then I've must've done something else wrong, because when I tried to Forward Annotate I received multiple similar error messages:

                             

                            ERROR: Block Schematic1, Page 1, Symbol $1I1557:<!#!><objindex>576460812432965660</objindex>

                                  No part data.

                                  No Part Number, Part Name, nor Part Label has been entered.

                                  Please enter some data to enable packaging.

                            • 11. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                              robert_davies

                              I suggest you contact your local support organization, this forum is not the place to debug such issues, it is too inefficient.

                              • 12. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                                mwoi

                                It appears that if I use any symbol from the Symbols tab in CL View, it is missing the Part Number, Part Name, and Part Label and that prevent me from Forward Annotating the project into Layout. I had to manually (and tediously) add those attributes to every symbol used in my project in order to get a clean Forward Annotation.

                                 

                                I can't believe this is the correct, straightforward  process of making a design and getting it to Layout.

                                • 13. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                                  robert_davies

                                  Now you have set up the Databook configuration for the ODA library (in your other thread Missing Databook Configuration in ODA Library? ) the you should be able to place parts out of the 'Search' tab of Databook - then the symbols will get the properties applied from the data stored in the database that are displayed in the columns of the 'Search' view. Note that this information is stored separately to the information in the central library and there is some duplication, so the Part Number (the unique identifier in the PCB tools) is duplicated in the parametric database (Access in this case) and the Central Library 'Part' information.

                                  I also explained that you can place 'Parts' that is symbols with enough information to package using the Part View of the CL tab - the CL tab is looking at the content of the Central Library - the 'Part' data which is the physical mapping between the symbol and the Decal along with the symbols. If you place a part from here and select the slot by expanding the slot column where it says Unassigned, then you will place a symbol with a minimum of properties used by packager, but for components such as resistors and capacitors this may not be enough to uniquely identify the part when it comes to be purchased. If you only place from the symbo view that is all you will get in most instances as many symbols are shared across parts - resistors and capacitors for example. Then you will get packaging errors as you have seen.

                                  To fully identify a part it is better to place from the Search tab, here you will get a superset of properties applied depending on the settings in Databook.

                                  If you are still struggling wth the concepts read the PADS Library Tools User's Guide and the PADS schematic Design Administrators Guide, the latter guide provides an overview of Databook concepts.

                                  Also look on PADS.com and Mentor.com for hints and tips or call your local support rep.

                                  • 14. Re: Missing pin numbers when placing symbols
                                    mwoi

                                    To fully identify a part it is better to place from the Search tab, here you will get a superset of properties applied depending on the settings in Databook.

                                     

                                    Yes, I've come to that conclusion, but the problem that remains is that any new part that I have created does not show up in the Search tab. I think this would be a rather commonplace task, but no one (to date) has given me the correct instructions to accomplish this.

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