6 Replies Latest reply on Dec 16, 2009 11:40 AM by charles_pfeil

    Do you use functional simulation as part of the design process?

    wael_farouk

      Hello DxD users,

       

      I would like to hear from you about the use of board level functional simulation.

      how frequent you use functional simulation as part of the design process? Is it mandatory or it is optional? parts of the design or all? Spice or other modeling langauges?

      What are the challenges that you face? In general, why do some designers skip the functional simulation?

      Did you try HyperLynx Analog before? What advantages and disadvnatages vs PSpice?

      What do you think the areas that we should invest more to encourage more people to use simulation?

       

      Thanks

      Wael

        • 1. Re: Do you use functional simulation as part of the design process?
          yu.yanfeng

          Hi Wael,

           

          Back to 90's early, I used Spice program heavily and it was real mandatory to my daily work becase I was designing Hybrid circuits  of  Video Amp, Sample Holders and CRT drivers using all descrites (PNP/NPN transitor, diode, Capacitor,Resistor,OPs). I  achived 90% accuracy compared to mesured results when using Mentor's Accusim II.

           

          Technology go fast,  As a board-level desinger, You can get all ICs from vendors and no need to design your own module again and you find Spice isn't valid to your daily work becasue you can get the IC model from your vendors. In digital-domaianted time, HDL/SI/PI/Thermal tool becam a mandatory tool to board-level desinger.

          I admit that Spice still have it's application such as simulating switching power, simulating Filter circuit etc.

           

          Hyperlynx Analog is a good tool, having same features with Pspice, but i think  users number  is limited. In our cmpany, we have roughly nearlly 1000 of board-level designers, only less 10 desingers use spice ocassionly.  I don't see the scape will get changed.

           

          Yanfeng

          • 2. Re: Do you use functional simulation as part of the design process?
            yu.yanfeng

            BTW, I think Mentor's symbolic floor-planner will be welcomed by board-level desinger. Board-level engineer need a comprehensive tool can support to analysis every aspects of the baoard in front.


            Yanfeng

            • 3. Re: Do you use functional simulation as part of the design process?
              wael_farouk

              Hi Yanfeng,

               

              Thanks for the feedback. So, in your opinion, you think that we have to invest more in HyperLynx Analog with ADMS, where you can model you components using behavioral language like (VHDL-AMS, Verilog-AMS, VHDL,...), and still can simulate Spice?

              If you believe that HDL became a mandatory tool, do you think that there is a need for pure digital board-level simulation, i.e: HyperLynx Analog integration with Modelsim?

               

              Thanks

              Wael

              • 4. Re: Do you use functional simulation as part of the design process?
                yu.yanfeng

                Hi Wael,

                 

                Today, most of digital board is software-dominated with ASSPs . I don't think board-designer(hardware) can do functional simulation or validation just like SOC designer do because you can't expect  ASSPs provide virtual socket models for those short-life-circle chips.

                As FPGA becam more popular, an interated FPGA/board tool suite can bring efficency to user,it's welcomed Dxdesigner interated with HDLdesinger and Modelsim, Precision, to make Expeditionpcb Enterprise to be a great tool suite. It seems We again back to Falcom frame time(Mentor Boardstation).

                Yanfeng

                • 5. Re: Do you use functional simulation as part of the design process?
                  wael_farouk

                  Hi Yanfeng,

                   

                  Part of this FPGA/PCB integration is already achieved by I/O Designer. But as you said, HDL Designer and Modelsim integration should make the flow more robust from the idea to manufacturing.

                   

                  Wael

                  • 6. Re: Do you use functional simulation as part of the design process?
                    charles_pfeil

                    Yanfeng,

                    Indeed, the intent of the Symbolic Floor Planner is to give the board-level engineer a means do placement activities and perform analysis on this work prior to PCB Layout, even before the schematic is 100% complete.  Having done so, the engineering intent can be communicated to the PCB designer with some confidence based on early analysis.  Initially we will target HyperLynx Thermal, I/O Designer and the EDMD Collaborator for integration with the Symbolic Floor Planner; however, since we will be supporting standard interfaces, it will be a short time when HyperLynx SI/PI, Analog can also analyze the engineering placement and the effects on the net behavior.

                    Regards,

                    Charles Pfeil