11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 15, 2011 4:32 PM by hsoli

    Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow

    hsoli

       

       

      I think the main goal of ICDB flow is enhancing design process by working on the same database.

       

      I don’t think fulfill this goal.

       

      I am looking for a solution for these 2 scenarios .

       

      Scenario 1:

      ===============

      2 EE ‘s working on the same design ( a design consist of 2 sheets)

      EE-1 editing sheet 1 and  opening sheet 2 view

      EE-2 should edit sheet 2 and read sheet 1

       

      Both engineers will lock each other.

       

      Conclusion. No Read/write capabilities on sheet level.

                              2 engineers cannot share same design.

       

       

      Scenario 2 :

      1 EE and 1 PCB designer .

      1 EE  working on a project editing design .

      1 PCB design opened the same design to check certain area .

      PCB design cannot open project for read only .

      PCB design may lock the schematic if he opened for viewing

       

      Conclusion : No read/Write capabilities on Project level.

       

      The flow was established under the assumption that designer will open one sheet for edit only and never open other sheets which is incorrect.

       

      Am I correct?

       

      Are there solutions for both scenarios other than archive /backup ?

        • 1. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
          Gary_Lameris

          Thank you for your questions, and there are supported solutions!

           

          Scenario 1 works well and is fully supported, unless you have the limited license with a PADS suite.  This is DxDesigners default operation, but you need to specify an iCDB netserver with the Remote Server Configuration Manager.  For instructions on setting up the server, see the document icdb_admin.pdf in the \docs\pdfdocs folder.  Additional licensing is not required to run the server.

           

          Scenario 2, No issue here either, but the iCDB netserver needs to be running, and the PCB designer can open DxDesigner (and still crossprobe) with the cmd "viewdraw -readonly"

           

          Gary Lameris

          Technical Marketing Engineer

          gary_lameris@mentor.com

          • 2. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
            hsoli

            Hello Gary

            The  ICDB environment ( RSCMserver ) is installed correctly on RSCMserver  .

             

            If engineer 1 open  sheet 1 and sheet 2 on schematics , none can edit these sheets at all until

            Engineer 1 close the sheet.

             

            It is common that engineers open multiple sheets one for view and other for edit.

             

            I can demonstrate this issue for you .

             

            Thanks

            Hany Soliman

            • 3. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
              Gary_Lameris

              With your additional note I understand and agree.

               

              If Engineer 2 wants to open a sheet for editing that Engineer 1 has open, Engineer 1 first has to close the sheet.  Engineer 1 can then reopen the sheet for viewing after Engineer 2 has write control.

               

              Gary Lameris

              • 4. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
                hsoli

                Hello Gary

                Happy holidays and Happy New year.

                I wish you the best in 2010.

                 

                That is why I said . design collaboration by using ICDB is unusable and inefficient.

                Engineer should have an option to open sheet for read or for write and to lock a sheet.

                 

                The current version of tool is stand alone user tool , Mentor need to improve this feature.

                 

                Can you send this issue to who is responsible for this product?

                 

                can you promote this idea.

                 

                Merry Christmas and Happy new year.

                Thanks

                Hany Soliman

                 

                 

                • 5. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
                  yu.yanfeng

                  Ths.Hi Hany,

                   

                  I understand what feature you requeset. But I think the feature for opening sheets as editable or view-only isn't a must-having feature. During a collabrative session, desingers always keep communications using IM(Instant Messaging), so a desinger can send the request to let another desinger close the sheets who will modify.

                   

                  Yanfeng

                  • 6. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
                    hsoli

                    Hello Yanfeng

                    Happy new year

                    Some companies prohibit IM through Yahoo or msn.

                    Some engineers close IM if they wan to concentrate on something.

                    Some engineers leave session open and leave their desk.

                    How 2 engineers or PCB designer and engineer open same design to finish their work.

                    PCB designer has to ask Engineer to close sheet every time he PCB opens schematic to cross probe to PCB layout.

                    Short answer, this is not the good way of design collaborative for professional engineers.

                     

                    If mentor decided to adopt the design collaborative concept and the server client flow, they should adopt it in the right way.

                     

                    Thanks

                    Hany soliman

                    • 7. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
                      Gary_Lameris

                      HS- "Some companies prohibit IM through Yahoo or msn. " 
                      GL - There are many IM vendors including solutions that can be internal and secure to a company.  There is also email, telephone and in most places the ability to walk down the hall and talk to the engineer, we could ship an IM product, but there are MANY good IM products produced by other vendors now.

                       

                      HS- "Some engineers leave session open and leave their desk."

                      GL- We ship a tool,  Server Manager, that allows you to close a session if this happens.

                       

                      HS- "How 2 engineers or PCB designer and engineer open same design to finish their work."

                      GL - The engineers need to comunicate, if they don't, the manager needs to work on the communication.

                       

                      HS -"PCB designer has to ask Engineer to close sheet every time he PCB opens schematic to cross probe to PCB layout. " 

                      GL- I don't understand, closing a sheet is not required for cross probing.  Cross Probing works with read only access in DxDesigner.

                       

                      HS- "Short answer, this is not the good way of design collaborative for professional engineers.
                      If mentor decided to adopt the design collaborative concept and the server client flow, they should adopt it in the right way."

                       

                      GL - I have witnessed at several sites, a half dozen engineers and designers working on the same schematic and the associated PCB with Extreme at the same time.  The tool does work.  The groups did have growing pains working in the environment and they had to learn to communicate.  The groups that communicated were far more productive than the groups that did not communciate and more productive than our previous versions of these same tools.

                       

                      We continue to enhance DxDesigner and Expedition, and we value your feedback.  You can send feedback on this topic to me personally at gary_lameris@mentor.com or the Mentor Idea's site. http://mentorideas.brightidea.com

                      • 8. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
                        hsoli

                        Hello Gary

                        ** First I am sorry to elaborate this issue further but I think this is an important feature. I think the main goal of this forum is discussing all ideas.

                         

                        ** Regarding IM issue, I disagree on relaying on IM as a main method to increase design collaboration. IM isn’t the main issue, we are using a special IM internally

                         

                        ** Engineers communicate with each other during design.

                             They shouldn’t communicate with each other to do simple daily activities such as close sheet , open sheer , I will edit this sheet.

                         

                        ** I understand that PCB designer can run DXD as read only .

                         

                        MG244483 describes the only way to run DxDesigner as read only is :

                        At a DOS prompt type:

                                 viewdraw.exe /readonly

                        this switch sets read-only mode for DxDesigner, so any sheet of any schematic of any project opened is in read-only, it is like a DxDesigner viewer.

                         

                        Mentor upgraded the tool to a new version and still recommends using dos prompt to open readonly design!!

                           

                        ** Here is the scenario I have here internally:

                         

                        1-     3 engineers , Engineer 1 working on FPGA , engineer 2 working on DSP and Engineer 3 working on Power supply ,

                        2-     This is 42 page design

                        3-     Engineer 1 working on FPGA communicating with DSP so he open FPGA sheets for editing and open DSP sheet for reading.

                        4-     On the other side Engineer 2 opened DSP section for editing and FPGA section for read only.

                        5-     Both engineers are working simultaneously.

                        6-     Who come first will lock the other .

                         

                        How both engineers open those sheets and working without locking each other?

                         

                        ** Currently Engineer is using DxDesigner 2005 , they divide the designs into sub blocks , each one is working on his sand box on his block after they agreed on top level design.

                        One engineer connect all sheets together on top level. This method was an easy task because schematics are single files . user can add and arrange files.

                         

                        ** Within DxDesigner 2007 , all designers are working on the same project binary files.

                         

                        **

                         

                        ** I think the only solution is isolating each engineers on sub design, and each one must work on his design ( virtual sand box) . At the end one engineer will merge designs.

                         

                        So there is no improvement in design collaboration .

                         

                        I think we still need an enhancement within design collaboration.

                         

                        Thanks for your response

                        Hany Soliman

                        • 9. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
                          yu.yanfeng

                          Hi Hany,

                           

                          I think it is not feasible to do design entry just like Xtremepcb to support allowing mutliple desinger working on the same object level both in the infracsture and the methodology. I guess that iCDB is mainly targeted to improve the communication of  the front-end and  the back end.

                           

                          If the project needs multiple displines, you may consider a Top-to-Down methodolgy. For example,  You may create a block for FPGA and difining the interface and another block for the power, assing FPGA designer and power specialist to work on the Blocks seperately, and you can  updating your top design . Dxdesigner 2007.X support this methodology well, Dave have created the video for this methodology.

                           

                          I guess you come from China HW

                          Yanfeng

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          • 10. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
                            robert_davies

                            In the latest versions of the tools you can set schematic sheets to open Read-only by default and there is a Click to edit option in the banner for a user to select edit mode. The setting is found under the Project node of the Settings dialog. If you enable concurrent design you will see an additional check box, Enable edit mode for opened sheets. This is on by default and the tool behaves as previously, if you switch this off you will get the sheets open in Read-only mode. if a sheet is being edited by another user you will be informed of this in the sheet banner. To disable sheet edit the designer editing the sheet must close it.

                            This option should fully support your scenarios.

                            • 11. Re: Design Collaboration by using ICDB flow
                              hsoli

                              Hello  Robert

                              Yes this feature was implemented in EE7.9.1 based on my request on mentor ideas.

                              Thanks

                              Hany Soliman