1 2 First Previous 18 Replies Latest reply on Jul 21, 2010 8:22 AM by jeff.heidel

    Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++

    yu.yanfeng

      Currently, There is no opition in Expeditionpcb 7.9 to control it to ouput ODB++ V6, it directly output V7.1 ODB++. This ODB++ version can't be read into Valor Trilogy 5000 V7.X, and it can't be processed promptly by up-to-date Vsure 9.01.

      Although Vsure 9.0.1 or Trilogy V8.2.0 can read it,but it will fails when output gerber data, Gencad data etc. Vsure 9.0.1 or Trilogy V8.2.0 warn there are wrong padstacks. We hope 7.9 can have an opitin to assign which ODB++ version for output, Aslso hope Expeditionpcb and Vsure team to discuss how to improve this interface, to make work smooth.

       

      Yanfeng

        • 1. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
          yu.yanfeng

          There is an issue in 7.9's ODB++ output.  If you add some of mechanical cells on your board, now 7.9 ODB++ output will assign those mechanical cells with same Ref NRD0(Befor 7.9, those Mechanical Cells be assigned with different NRD0, NRD1,NRD...), This problem make Valor Trilogy 5000 8.2.0 or Vsure 9.0.1 can't output any assembly data such as Gencad, Fabmster ASCII etc. There are other issues behide this problem.

           

          I have logged it on the supportnet.

           

          Yanfeng

          • 2. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
            Rene

            Hi Yanfeng,

            Thanks for sharing this information. It triggers us to have a close look to the ODB++ output from EE7.9 and check if manufacturers can handle this format.
            Are the Mechanical Cells are the root cause or do you suggest that besides this there are other issues that give problems in applications like Trilogy or vSure?

             

            I like your suggestion to have the ablility to generate ODB++ according different versions of the ODB++ specification. Maybe this is something for Mentor Ideas.

            An improvement in the ODB++ output from EE7.9 is that version of the ODB++ format is now listed in ODB++ data, previously it wasn't and when I was asked I couldn't mention it.

             

            René Linssen.

            • 3. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
              yu.yanfeng

              Hell Rene,

              Yes. Mechanical Cells with same Ref is the primary cause that make Trilogy or Vusre can't output Gencad and Fabmaster fatf. Currently, I don't have a clear vies to other issues. I will check it further.

               

              BTW, Would your  company use ODB++ as manufacturing data format? We are in a process to migrate to ODB++ and our managments wanna know who are using this format.

               

              Much thanks!

               

              Yanfeng

              • 4. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                yu.yanfeng

                Hell Rene,

                Another issue be founded. When transfering the odb++ at an angle, the bottom' pad get wrong angle( a 90 degree difference). if the pad is rectangle or odd polygon, all things get wrong.  In previous Trilogy 5000 or Genesis 2000, It had a bug for the  roration of design, but it seems get corrected from Trilogy 5000 V8.2.0 and Genesis 2000 V9.2B. Why this happened? I guess the cause is the lack of symbols in ODB++ data generated from Expeditionpcb 7.9.

                 

                Yanfeng

                • 5. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                  Rene

                  Hi Yanfeng,

                   

                  For BoardStation we (Philips Consumer Lifestyle) use the ODB++ format already for several years succesfull to interface to PCB manufacturing and EMS.

                  To support a smooth data transfer to manufacturing we have created a document which describes the data elements in our ODB++ and how it should be treated.

                  We are starting this year with Expedition and have at this moment very little experience with communticating ODB++ from Expedition to manufacturing.

                  But for the ODB++ output from Expedition we are also documenting the content so that it is again clear for manufacturing.

                   

                  René.

                  • 6. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++

                    I'm glad I'm not the only seeing this issue.  I have had 3 of our assembly houses complain that they can not read the ODB++ files we are sending them.  I can view them fine with GerbTool, the free Valor viewer. and AutoVue.

                    • 7. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                      steve_hughes

                      All,


                      This is a relartively minor issue to fix & a TechNote has been published on SupportNet:

                       

                      http://supportnet.mentor.com/reference/technotes/public/technote.cfm?tn=MG523106

                       

                      When opening an ODB++ job that was created by importing Mentor Expedition Enterprise 7.9 ODB++ data, the user receives the following error message: “Job has ODB++ version 7.1 while the application supports only version 7.0.  Please refer to user documentation 0203.pdf for ODB++ version compatibility.

                       

                      This issue is caused by an incorrect minor version tag in the ODB++ data output from Mentor Expedition Enterprise 7.9.


                      Regards,

                       

                      Steve

                      • 8. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                        yu.yanfeng

                        Hello Steve,

                        We don't care the version tag. It's my sadness that Mentor don't know what is the probelm even user have described it clearly.

                        Yanfeng

                        • 9. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                          yu.yanfeng

                          One picture is worth of thousands of words. Let me show what is impact to downstream CAM tool.

                           

                          1 a SOIC with octagonal pad put on the bottom layer on Expeditionpcb in 2007.8 and 7.9

                           

                           

                           

                          1.jpg

                           

                          2  CAMCAD imports ODB++ (V6) output from Expeditionpcb 2007.8

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          2.jpg

                           

                           

                          3CAMCAD imports ODB++ (V7.1) output from Expeditionpcb 7.9

                           

                           

                           

                          3.jpg

                           

                          Why this happened ?I have posted another topic about this issue( http://communities.mentor.com/message/15343#15343). There are more to say.

                           

                          I hope Mentor can think it bejond this problem.

                          Yanfeng

                          • 10. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                            steve_hughes

                            Yanfeng,


                            Thank you for clearly demonstrating this issue.

                             

                            If you can provide me with the SR number that has the appropriate test case associated with it I will ensure that a DTS is assigned so that Engineering can investigate further.

                             

                            Thanks & Regards,

                             

                            Steve

                            • 11. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                              yu.yanfeng

                              Hi Steve,

                               

                              Much thanks! I logged SRs both in Expeditionpcb catalog and Trilogy 5000 catalog

                               

                              #SR 2303571316 - Mechanical cells have same reference in ODB++ file from Expedition EE 7.9

                              I have received feedback from Mentor CSE:
                              Dear Mr Yu,

                              I have reproduced the problem you reported with the mechanical cells having the same reference in the ODB++ file when no reference designator is defined in EE 7.9 Expedition PCB. As you say, this results in an error message when creating the outputs such as GenCAD and Fabmaster from vSure.

                              I have opened a new critical defect for the issue.


                              There is a workaround of defining reference designators for the mechanical parts in Expedition before creating the ODB++ output. I don't know if this would be an acceptable workaround for you? If you have some information about if this is suitable for you, I will pass it on to engineering.

                              Best regards

                              Jackie Davidson

                              # 2304838123 Pending

                               

                              # 2305814402 pending

                               

                               

                               

                               

                              Yanfeng

                              • 12. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                                steve_hughes

                                Yangfeng,

                                 

                                I’m sorry but the SR numbers & descriptions you provide here are completely different than the Pad rotation problem you highlighted earlier.

                                 

                                Please would provide SR number for the original pad rotation issue?

                                 

                                 

                                Best Regards,

                                 

                                Steve

                                • 13. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                                  yu.yanfeng

                                  Hi Steve,

                                  Sorry. I didn't log the SR specially for wrong pad rotation.

                                  Yanfeng

                                  • 14. Re: Expeditionpcb 7.9 ouputs problematic V7.1 ODB++
                                    steve_hughes

                                    Yanfeng,

                                     

                                    Please go ahead & log a SR, then as I said previously, I will be able to have a DTS assigned so that Engineerign cam invesigate further.

                                     

                                     

                                    Thanks & Rgeards,

                                     

                                    Steve

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