1 2 First Previous 17 Replies Latest reply on Nov 7, 2011 6:47 AM by robert_davies

    Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors

    Thomas.DeSmit

      We're having an issue with the pin width on the inter and intra sheet connectors that are places using the Special Comps Links. We've edited the pin width to be "2", for a little wider pin, and also to match our default net/line width of "2". The problem is that when these connectors are placed on a schematic, the pin is very thin, it looks like it's probably a "1", but clicking on the pin, it doesn't have the "width" as part of the properties. Does anyone have any idea of what's going on here? It may be another clue that in the Library Manager Preview window, the pins look thin too, but if you open for editing in Symbol Editor, they are set for "2", and the pin looks correct. Any input on this would be appreciated. Thanks.

       

      I attached screen shot that shows the preview window, and the same symbol open in the editor. You may have to zoom in to see the pin on the right of the symbol in the preview window.

       

      Tom D.

      Aeroflex

        • 1. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
          robert_davies

          Which version of DxDesigner are you using? There was a lag between pins supporting a width setting in the Symbol Editor and DxDesigner supporting this in one of the releases. Unfortunately I cannot remember off the top of my head when the two got synced up.

          • 2. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
            Thomas.DeSmit

            We are running DxD/Exp EE flow 7.9.2 update 5. I know update 6 came out a couple of days ago, but we haven't rolled that in yet. According to release notes, that update has to do with heirarchical designs, which we don't do, so we weren't in a hurry to install that one. I"m willing to go ahead with that update if you think it might fix the issue.

             

            Tom D.

            • 3. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
              robert_davies

              There is no need to update to that patch, the changes I was talking about were around 7.9.0 or 7.9.1 releases. You could take a look at the symbol ASCII file for lines such as the following to confirm the symbol has the right data:

              |GRPHSTL -1 0 0 2

               

              This is working for me with 7.9.3 and should be working in 7.9.2 too.

              • 4. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                Thomas.DeSmit

                Here's the contents of CON_INTER_I.1

                 

                V 54

                K 1320180511 CON_INTER_I.1

                F Case

                |R 15:48:31_11-1-11

                D 127000 381000 1016000 127000

                Y 3

                Z 0

                i 14

                U 127000 127000 254000 0 1 0 FORWARD_PCB=0

                l 5 127000 127000 635000 127000 762000 254000 635000 381000 127000 381000

                Q 11 0 0

                |GRPHSTL 65535 0 0 2

                l 2 127000 127000 127000 381000

                Q 11 0 0

                |GRPHSTL 65535 0 0 2

                P 13 1016000 254000 762000 254000 0 3 0

                L 1295400 711200 304800 0 4 0 0 0 I1

                A 1016000 254000 0 0 3 0 PINTYPE=OUT

                |FNTSTL -1 0

                E

                 

                The two lines I see with GRPHSTL in them both have a "2" at the end, is that what you are referring to?

                 

                Tom D.

                • 5. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                  robert_davies

                  That is correct.

                   

                  Have you tried adding these in a completely new design? It will eliminate any caching issues from the library. If you get no joy doing so then call customer support.

                  • 6. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                    Thomas.DeSmit

                    Robert, after some testing, it does appear that the symbols DO look right when placed in certain designs, but they have the "skinny" pin in others! Now, the million dollar question is: how to get them to look right in ALL designs? You mentioned "caching", is there any way to "purge" things out of the "cache"?

                     

                    Tom D.

                    • 7. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                      robert_davies

                      If the symbols have been updated in the library then use Tools - Update Symbols to replace them with the newest version. If you want a visual cue for this then select Flag out-of-date symbols in the Advanced page of Settings.

                      If you've updated a symbol in the library and haven't closed and reopened the project, use Tools - Update Libraries.

                      • 8. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                        Thomas.DeSmit

                        OK, after a little more experimentation, I think I have a handle on what's going on.

                         

                        The design where the symbol looked "right" was a project that was not pointing to a valid Central Library, it must have been pulling the CON_INTER_BI.1 from the install directory (I did a search and found those symbols in a number of places in the install directory).

                         

                        The symbols do not look correct when a project is pointing to our "master" Central Library, the pin width is set to "2", just as it is with all our symbols, but for some reason, on these parts, the pin ends up being a "hairline" width. If I change the pin width to "3", it no longer displays as a "hairline". The reason we are seeing a difference now is the fact that we just made a change in our library to change all the symbols to "high" on the precision (vs "backward compatible"). For some reason on these parts, when the precision is set to high, the pin appears as a "hairline" with any width setting of less than 3. I guess I'll try to submit that one to support, unless something comes along to shoot down that theory.

                         

                        I suppose we could also go back to "backward compatible" on those symbols, but we were trying to avoid having a mixed bag of the two settings.

                         

                        Thanks for the input Robert.

                         

                        Tom D.

                        Aeroflex

                        • 9. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                          robert_davies

                          Interesting. I don't have the same issue with this with either High Precision or Backward compatible using the 7.9.2 or 7.9.3 version of the product.

                          Rob

                          • 10. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                            Thomas.DeSmit

                            sheet_con_issue.pngHere's a screen shot with the pin set for "2" on the lower ones, and three on the upper one. It's not just my install, either, because all the users here see the same thing. I may run the latest patch and see if that has any effect.

                            Tom D.

                            Aeroflex

                            • 11. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                              robert_davies

                              Send me the symbol files: robert_davies@mentor.com and I'll take a look.

                              Rob

                              • 12. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                                Gary_Lameris

                                The symbol you attached, did not have a pin width of 2 in the saved symbol.  Try using save-as to save to another name to verify the file is bing saved in the correct directory.  The file below has a pin width of 2.

                                 

                                V 54

                                K 1320420864 con_inter.1

                                F Case

                                |R 9:34:24_11-4-11

                                D 127000 381000 1016000 127000

                                Y 3

                                Z 0

                                i 14

                                U 127000 127000 254000 0 1 0 FORWARD_PCB=0

                                l 5 127000 127000 635000 127000 762000 254000 635000 381000 127000 381000

                                Q 11 0 0

                                |GRPHSTL 65535 0 0 2

                                l 2 127000 127000 127000 381000

                                Q 11 0 0

                                |GRPHSTL 65535 0 0 2

                                P 13 1016000 254000 762000 254000 0 3 0

                                |GRPHSTL -1 0 0 2

                                L 1295400 711200 304800 0 4 0 0 0 I1

                                A 1016000 254000 0 0 3 0 PINTYPE=OUT

                                E

                                • 13. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                                  Thomas.DeSmit

                                  Well, if the file didn't have a pin width of "2", then Symbol Editor is lying to me. Here's a screen shot, showing the "port line width" is "2"

                                   

                                  Image2.png

                                   

                                  Now, here's the contents of that file:

                                   

                                  V 54

                                  K 1320421730 CON_INTRA_thin_792_new.1

                                  F Case

                                  |R 10:48:50_11-4-11

                                  D 0 381000 508000 127000

                                  Y 3

                                  Z 0

                                  i 2

                                  U 0 127000 254000 0 1 0 FORWARD_PCB=0

                                  l 6 228600 279400 254000 254000 127000 127000 0 254000 127000 381000 228600 279400

                                  Q 11 0 0

                                  |GRPHSTL 65535 0 0 2

                                  P 12 508000 254000 254000 254000 0 3 0

                                  L 787400 711200 304800 0 4 0 0 0 I1

                                  A 508000 254000 0 0 3 0 PINTYPE=BI

                                  E

                                   

                                   

                                  I think maybe there's something going on with our symbol editor ini file, and I've sent that to Robert, along with the a couple examples of the symbol in question. If the contents of that symbol don't show a pin width of "2", then Symbol Editor is not reflecting the pin width correctly.

                                   

                                  Tom D.

                                  • 14. Re: Problem with intra and inter sheet connectors
                                    Thomas.DeSmit

                                    OK, I think I can say with some degree of certainty, that the nse_lm.ini is what was responsible for the bad symbols. I renamed that file in the root of the Central Library directory, and now when I open the symbols that were displaying the pins as "hairlines", the pin width shows as "1" even though they were saved as "2". I changed one of the symbols to a pin width of "2", saved, pulled it into a schematic, and it displays as it should. I'll try to get that ini file to you guys at Mentor, so you can analyze why it was causing erroneous results in Symbol Editor. I'd like to figure out what "setting" was causing that issue, so I can be sure we don't make the mistake of setting the Symbol Editor configuration the same as what caused this issue to crop up in the first place.

                                     

                                    Tom D.

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