2 Replies Latest reply on Dec 7, 2012 6:08 AM by kirk.fabbri

    Co Simulation (Chip Die and Package and PCB board)

    bchoi

      Hello,

       

      Is it possible to perform the co simulation ( Chip Die and Package and PCB board) with HyperLynx?

       

      If not possible,  what if uisng s-parameters extracted from the package  and PC board?

       

       

      Thanks.

        • 1. Re: Co Simulation (Chip Die and Package and PCB board)
          cristian.filip

          As long as you want to perform Spice simulations, the answer is yes, it is possible assuming that you have all the required models (including the Chip Die). However, as far as I know, if you want to perform plane-noise simulation (PowerScope) the answer in no, since there in no way to include the Chip Die and Package models into your simulation setup. Maybe Mentor guys could correct me if I am wrong.

          • 2. Re: Co Simulation (Chip Die and Package and PCB board)
            kirk.fabbri

            I have modeled the PCB, IC Package, and Die Capacitance information with S-Parameters before in HyperLynx.  It is time consuming but it did work.  I wish HyperLynx would allow you to assign package information in BoardSim when running decoupling or plane noise analysis.

             

            If you want to simulate the impedance like I have done above then you need to export the PCB and IC Package as separate S-Par models.  Following this you need to connect them up in LineSim and place ports at whatever locations you wish to view the impedance.  I had to add a SPICE model for the die capacitance (simple lumped capacitor model).  You can use the capacitor model in HyperLynx if you want but you can't completely get rid of the parasitics that come with the capacitor, that's why I used a SPICE model.

             

            Then just export the entire setup as an S-Par model and then convert to a Z-parameter model if you wish.

             

            I also attached a current source (SPICE Model) to the die node to simulate gate switching and then measuring the ripple voltage on the PDN with the O-scope.  Similarly you could attach a Sine source (SPICE - singular frequency) at a PDN node and measure the response at the die.  This is useful for seeing how your system reacts to certain frequencies or harmonics in the time domain.