8 Replies Latest reply on Mar 8, 2011 7:47 AM by Vern_Wnek

    Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature

    dale.rebgetz

      I have a common situation where a board is mounted in a metal chassis. The metal may simply contact the edge of the board or it may be formed to retain the board, or it may just come close to the board.

       

      How do I define that feature such that clearance rules (copper and part) can be applied to it?

       

      I can achieve this by creating a cell with at least one pad and adding metallisation features, but this is at best a very messy cludge.

      Or I can draw the feature, then manually create a route obstruct at the appropriate distance, but this is also a very poor solution.

       

      So how should it be managed with Expedition?

        • 1. Re: Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature
          Vern_Wnek

          Dale,

           

          This is simple for you if you are just looking for an area that will catch DRCs for Parts or Copper placed in this area. Just adjust your "Route Border" to be inside of the mechanical area where the chassis will touch the board. With DRC turned on, you willnot be able to route outside of the Route Border, you will also get notification if you try to place parts in the area. If you have had DRC turned off, the Batch DRC run on your design will report the violations to this area.

           

          Thanks,

          Vern Wnek

          • 2. Re: Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature
            dale.rebgetz

            Vern,

             

            I am looking for something more sophisticated than that. i.e. draw or import the the metal outline, then tell Expedition "treat this as a metal area belonging to netclass xyz". Then the clearances will be determined by the rules, and it will allow me to do important things like keep hazardous voltage parts futher from the metal than SELV parts. I can't do that with the route border.

            The only way I know I can achieve this is by creating a custom part for the metal.

             

            Dale.

            • 3. Re: Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature
              yu.yanfeng

              Hi Dale,

               

              For your situation, you may need a environment to support Mechanical-Electrical collaboration. Mentor and PTC began to solve this issue, but both not matured . I have tried the offers from Mentor and PTC, it doesn't match what we need.  I think a real mechanical-electronical collaboration environment will comes 5 years late.

               

              Yanfeng

              • 4. Re: Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature
                Vern_Wnek

                Dale,

                 

                Do you use CES? CES has the capability to add Rule Areas called "Schemes" within it. You can create Netclasses as needed and apply them to the Scheme with Specifics for just that scheme. This will allow you to do what you require. Place a Conductive Shape in the area required that is tied to a netname if needed. This netname can be a Netclass of it's own. Then apply your Class to Class rules  as needed within the Scheme Area. ECAD Collaboration is not needed, but could be a nice addition to the capability - but what you need can be accomplised without it, and I don't expect you will have to wait 5 years for it - unless you are not using Expedition tools ;-).

                 

                I would contact your local AE or Support for further information available on CES Training if needed.

                 

                Thanks,

                Vern Wnek

                • 5. Re: Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature
                  dale.rebgetz

                  Hi Vern,

                   

                  > Do you use CES? CES has the capability to add Rule Areas called

                  > "Schemes" within it. You can create Netclasses as needed and apply

                  > them to the Scheme with Specifics for just that scheme.

                  I have started using CES - after being a long-time Net Classes and Clearances user - but the principles are much the same.

                   

                  > Place a Conductive Shape in the area required  that is tied to a netname

                  > if needed.

                  Correct me if I am wrong, but won't that result in copper being added to the board? My reason for wanting to use something like metallised area was to define a conductor in contact with the board, not to ADD a conductor to the board. If I could add a metallised area directly in Expedition as a Draw object, I think that is all I would need.

                   

                  > ECAD Collaboration is not needed, but could be a nice addition to the capability

                  True, it is nice but not essential. We lost such collaboration when Bently and VeriBest went their separate ways. 12 years later that void has not been filled by anyone (to my knowledge).

                   

                  > but what you need can be accomplised  without it, and I don't expect you will

                  > have to wait 5 years for it -  unless you are not using Expedition tools ;-).

                  Tell me more - although if it turns out to be another add-on module ($) I am out of luck. Over the history of the product, new functionality always seems to be balanced with reduced functionality elsewhere (which sometimes can be purchased back). Altium continues to look more attractive in a cost-sensitive environment.

                   

                  Thanks,

                  Dale.

                  • 6. Re: Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature
                    Vern_Wnek

                    Dale,

                     

                    I would suggest a training class if you can on CES, it is extremely powerfull. I come from the Netclass/Properties days also, and have found CES to be better than anything else in it's class. It can be a little daunting to learn on your own, but there are some How Tos available on the Support Site you can look into.

                     

                    Go here: http://supportnet.mentor.com/overview/index.cfm?product=C107-S123-G145-P10168

                    Try the Tech Notes and How To's sections also.

                     

                    As for the Conductive shape, I was under the impression you were trying to add some type of Guide Rails area. My Bad, not needed for what you want to do.

                     

                    Bently/Veribest - Now those were some old times ;-) The ECAD collaboration is only getting better, and sooner than you think. I am under heavy guard and cannot discuss it - but expect Best In Class capability coming to your designs soon. As for a loss in functionality elsewhere, I cannot agree with that. The Mentor tools continue to impress even me after 14 years of usage, and Altium or any other competitor cannot hold up to what we have available for the users today. The future will be better for all users I'm sure of it!

                     

                    Good Luck,

                    Vern Wnek

                    • 7. Re: Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature
                      dale.rebgetz

                      Vern,

                       

                      Is it possible to contact you directly for an OT discussion?

                      I could not find any option to do so.

                       

                      Thanks,

                      Dale.

                      • 8. Re: Defining a metal area/route obstruct for an external feature
                        Vern_Wnek

                        Dale,

                         

                        I can be reached at vern_wnek@mentor.com

                         

                        This is the best way to contact me at this time.

                         

                        Thanks,

                        Vern Wnek